Does the University matter 4

[Bmanley]

Hello All

I’ve been reading this site off and on for some time now and I really appreciate it, thank you.

I am a 34 year old studying at a community college in order to get into an engineering program at the local University, UNF. I already have a BFA and a long work history but I have decided to pursuit a BS in either mechanical or civil. I am well into the math and science pre requisites.

My question is does the university matter much? Accreditation would of course but what about the difference between UNF, UF, and FIT? Does it matter beyond getting the first job?

It would be very difficult for me to go to another university as UF doesn’t give 2nd undergraduate degrees and FIT would involve moving my family.

Additionally, does anyone have any suggestions on things that I should focus on in my schooling?

Thanks

 

[TheTick]

UNF = "University of the North Forty"?

 

[SWComposites]

It matters somewhat for the first job. Grades also matter. Suggest you check with the placement/career office at UNF - see what companies are recruiting there. Many entry level jobs are filled by on campus recruiting; its much more difficult to find an entry level job otherwise - see the many posts on this forum - most entry level jobs are not advertised. If the companies you are interested in working for are not recruiting at UNF, you might want to look at a different school. Georgia Tech offers a distance learning MS degree; you might check with them about a BS. Or since you already have a BA, check with UF or GT about getting an engineering MS - you will likely have to take extra classes, but it might be less than for a full BS, and you'll have an MS and perhaps could do some/all as distance learning.

 

[PhilBW]

"I am well into the math and science"

You should see if those math and science credits will transfer. Most engineering programs will not accept math and science credits from a community college.

 

[KENAT]

"does the university matter much"

There are various schools of thought on this, to me it seems that it matters more in the US than in did in the UK and that as your career progresses it matters less and less.

Just how much it matters for the first job I'm not totally sure but in some situations annocdotal evidence would suggest it does make a difference.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[IRstuff]

This subject has been hashed out quite recently: thread731-223021

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Bmanley]

SWComposites,
I'm wondering more specifically about latter jobs, or how important is it over my whole career. You make good points though. I've heard about the MS route but looking at my transcript I have virtually nothing transferable to MS, and that route is also more expensive per credit hour.

PhilBW
Fortunatly, I have thought of that and yes they do transfer.
These two Particular Institutions seem to play well together.

 

[Bmanley]

IRstuff,
I missed that one. Thank you.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Just make sure it's always been a university and wasn't just a swimming pool until recently (c. "Mock The Week" & Hugh Dennis' honorary degree).

- Steve

 

[SWComposites]

Becomes less and less important as your career progresses. However, where you start your first job can affect later jobs, and so on. I.e. if you want to work in some "high tech" area and entry level jobs are only filled with grads from certain uni's, then you may find it hard to get into that area later, as the entry level job you start with may not provide the required experience. But anything is possible, just some paths are much harder.

I would not give up the MS route yet. Yes you can't transfer credits to the MS, but your current courses should fulfill the extra prep courses you would be required to take. I would go to a couple of schools and sit down with a grad school advisor and see if you can work something out. Then weigh that versus the BS route.

 

[Ron]

Bmanley...I'm familiar with all of the Universities you noted. I taught at UNF for 5 years, I'm a graduate of UF, and have hired engineers from FIT. I am currently on one of the advisory councils for the UNF engineering school.

For a fledgling engineering school, UNF is doing well. Their reputation is growing and the graduates are getting some recognition. The professors are not big names, but their research continues to grow. I have hired two graduates from their civil program...one was good, one was excellent...one of them (the excellent one, of course) is an Eng-Tips member.

FIT is a good school, but hasn't yet achieved as much recognition as it probably should have. A friend and colleague (he is an Eng-Tips member, but I won't identify him) is a graduate and he's one of the sharpest engineers I know. Don't tell him I said that!

UF has a much larger engineering school than either of the other two, is nationally recognized, has high level research and stature....all the things you would expect of a 150-year old University that is considered the state's flagship university.

Starting salaries for the three are not significantly different; however, you get much more exposure to employers from UF than you'll get from the others, simply because some employers don't recruit every school. Most of the big engineering firms recruit there. Smaller firms often recruit smaller schools...just the way it is.

So back to your original question...Does the School Matter? Yes. The greater the reputation of the school the more that "rubs off" on you! You might not be a better engineer than the guy from Podunk Tech, but you'll get more opportunities to prove yourself. Keep in mind that companies recruit from bigger named schools for a couple of reasons...1) the programs are usually more competitive and rigorous, thus when you graduate you're perceived as being better qualified, and 2)it gives them bragging rights for marketing purposes. Not the best reason to hire someone, but "bidness is bidness".

Will you go wrong by chosing either of those three? NO! Put a lot into it and you'll get a lot out of it...that will show when you interview.

Good luck.

 

[Bmanley]

Great help Ron, Thank you.

There is of course Embry-Riddle to but that has the distance issue for me. It seems well respected from what I can tell.

Do you have any thoughts on the MS pursuit? My current MFA is in computer art. I cannot see that as being much use academically in becoming an engineer.

 

[Ron]

Bmanley...when you get your BS in engineering, you can pursue a masters through the "FEEDS" program. That is the "Florida Engineering Education Delivery System", which will allow you to get a Masters Degree in a variety of engineering disciplines through an organized, distance learning program. UNF participates in the FEEDS program and you can review taped lectures there or do internet classes in some programs.

 

[Hoagie]

I agree with SWComposites...the better U, the easier it is to get a first job and a higher starting salary. Check out Payscale_com for recent list of starting pay vs. US Universities and polytechnics. The EIT (FE) is just as important as getting your degree, so try for that as soon as you can.

Good luck.

H.

 

[casseopeia]

I can't add much that Ron has not covered. I'd just like to emphasize the need to keep in constant communication with your advisers about transferring credits. Talk not just to the Community College people. They are the most likely to tell you that everything will transfer. Try to talk to people at each of the institutions you are considering as well. And don't just talk to them once. Keep going in. Tell them that you heard through the grapevine that they are no longer accepting XYZ Community College chemistry, or whatever. With the current state of the economy, I imagine there is going to be less flexibility as the institutions become more greedy of you credit hour dollars.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[MechEng2005]

Also, it seems that many of the hiring managers will favor people that graduated from the same school. I'm not saying in a discriminatory way, but they know the type of program that the person has completed. I can see why a person would prefer to have experienced the same education as somebody they are looking to hire, as opposed to relying on the reputation. This seems to be especially true for "big name" schools (i.e. I'm not sure how somebody hiring would view canidates that went to the same "mediocre" school as they did). It does seem like hiring managers often have degrees from "big name" schools. To me, that indicates that they based their school decision on the reputation, and would likely appreciate that you did too.

-- MechEng2005

 

[jgailla]

Bmanley,
If you are planning to stay in Jacksonville, a civil degree from UNF should be all you need to get a job in civil engineering. If you're planning to move, nodody's heard of UNF, but it doesn't matter for most jobs as long as you have your ABET-accredited degree and your license. After the first job, I'm not sure it really matters where you went to school.

Of course, if the market doesn't turn around, you won't be able to get a job anyway.
I was in a similar position as you, and so were many of my classmates. I had a BA in literature and history, which got me nowhere. I was working in construction and I couldn't afford to go to school out of town.
We were the first accredited civil class at UNF, and there were a lot of people in their late 20's and early 30's who didn't want to or couldn't move out of Jacksonville. When the program opened, we jumped at the chance to get an engineering degree from a local school.
There are UNF graduates at several of the larger and well known firms in Jacksonville.

Ron,
Thank you for the compliment. It is much appreciated.

 

[Bmanley]

I have no plans to move from Jacksonville but one of the things that life has taught me is that you cannot count on your plans.
This issue is just one of the things that I have been concerned about while pursuing this goal. I’m not the traditional 20 year old and by the time I actually enter the field I will be 37 and competing with many entry level applicants. I figure I need every edge that I can get. I realize that I am not the only 30 something changing fields (as has been noted in this thread) and there are also advantages to my age, but I still like stacking the deck.

Jgailla, I’m glad to hear about UNF graduates doing well, I’m really looking forward to being one.

 

[Ron]

jgailla....since you have "outed" yourself, I'll comment further.

jgailla was in the first accredited graduating class of Civil Engineers at UNF. That can sometimes be a "kiss of death", since the engineering program at such universities is untried and its graduates unproven.

At the time I was a Senior VP and Regional Manager of a 500-person ENR rated engineering firm. We were not recruiting smaller engineering schools as a matter of "policy". We were unsuccessfully recruiting the "name" universities. My position allowed me to recruit from wherever I wanted. Since I was involved closely with the UNF program, it would have been disingenuous of me to not recruit there.

jgailla had a strong technical background, but he also had an underlying "I get it" sense. And he did. He compared favorably with graduates of "name" universities and we hired him. He did well in his initial job and is doing well now as he has moved on, as have I.

The point of all this is that UNF has a strong technical program and if you put something into is, you'll see a nice return. Your "life" experience and maturity are positives, not negatives...use them accordingly.

Good luck. UNF is a good program.

 

[IRstuff]

While strictly speaking, your alma mater makes little difference during the job application process, coming from a strong, reputable school will definitely give you an air of authority and credibility, unless, of course, you torpedo it yourself. So, regardless of when you interview, their ears will perk up, ever so slightly, if you come from a name school.

While one wouldn't think that residency makes much difference with a doctor that's been in practice for a decade or two, when we choose doctors, we often look at their residencies like an endorsement of their capabilities, so someone from San Francisco General will get more notice than someone from Whittier Presbyterian. Oddly, I know someone who was rejected by the latter, but actually completed residency at the former.

Likewise, if you were to graduate from Stanford, MIT, Caltech, UC Berkeley, etc., people will give you a little bit more latitude. If you can live up to their expectations, so much the better.

My recommendation is to get into the absolute best possible program for you that you can qualify for. Because, a 50-precentile student from MIT, is only remembered for graduating from MIT; GPA and class rank are definitely long ignored and forgotten.

TTFN

FAQ731-376