Double weight

[cubalibre000]

Hi,
I set steel material to a component.
I insert this component in the assembly.
I create a wave body link.
I add feature.
I set steel material to the body.
I saved the assembly and now I see double weight.
Why ?
I attach a picture to understand.

Thank you

 

[jerry1423]

I only have a guess on this one:
It appears that you have set steel to the body twice, once in the assembly, and once at the component level.
I don't think you need to set it at the assembly level, it will inherit the steel properties from the component.

 

[cubalibre000]

Hi jerry1423,
I've tried now your suggestion and saved the assembly, but the resul is alwais the same 2 x weight component.

Thank you..

 

[cowski]

What did you wave link?

If you wave linked the body and you have it as a component, you now have 2 bodies in the assembly (reference set doesn't matter). Unless I am misunderstanding something?

 

[cubalibre000]

Hi cowski,
the purpose of the linked body is because I need to cut the molded part.
Have you any suggestion to perform the right weight calculation in the assembly navigator ?
If the weight column in the assembly navigator is non real, and if I insert 123 flange, the weight is absolutely incorrect.

Thank you...

 

[JohnRBaker]

Here is an example of where Promotions are still useful.

Or you could go back and assign, at the assembly level, density of 0.0 to the extra body.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[uwam2ie]

@ John,
when you look at Cubalibre00 attached picture,
we can see that he is using some colums in the ant for attributes or additional information connected with the components. Here is some thing like an ER :
I think it would be usefull to filter the columns, as a view.
I have serveral views in the ant where different visible columns are stored - and switch between the different Ant views
Hope you can follow me, thx

 

[hudson888]

As an aside to the implications of some of this discussion I have a question for John. At what point is NX weight management likely to comprehend the weight of assemblies correctly. The example I would give is that when added to a parts list on which masses are listed, all assemblies have zero mass.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[JohnRBaker]

The problem is that the 'MASS' value in the Parts List is measuring the 'bodies' in the part file and technically, if everyone did their job RIGHT, there are NO 'bodies' in an Assembly.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[cubalibre000]

Hi John,
thank you for your explication.
Promotion was disabled in our customer default, because the support told us that promotion was discontinued and replaced by wave link.
When a cast part need to be worked, support and the courses teach to use wave geometry link body, now you suggest to use promotion.
It clear that I want that NX calculate the weight correctly, so can you explain me when use promotion and when use wave geometry link body ?

Regards....

 

[hudson888]

Promotion was a precursor if you like to wave linking the newer and generally more sophisticated tool. Now while wave links have been around for a while there has never been talk of any plans to dump the only promotion functionality.

The topic comes up from time to time on the forums so you can search here for more detailed earlier discussions. In general if anything is or can be agreed then it would be that promotions work best for things like weldments and occasionally castings. Most people these days do use and prefer wave links because they're more sophisticated, and the devil is in the detail when it comes to deciding what best reflects your company system and work flow.

In the context of this recent discussion wave links don't always double you're mass calculations depending on where you link to and from. One of the more flexible aspects of the system is that you can wave link from anywhere within a given assembly to anywhere else in that assembly. Like anything flexible anarchy is also a possibility. Promotions on the other hand work on the basis that the solid is promoted from a component that lives directly underneath the part which will contain the resulting promotion.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[cubalibre000]

Thank you hudson888,
I'm sorry for the question, I understand that in this forum was treat very often.
I will search in the forum to understand better where and when use them, maybe discussions from users and their experience is a lot better then support and courses.

Thank you again..

 

[SiW979]

Your all miles from the mark. If you use the assembly method of WAVE linking i.e. Adding the donor part into the new empty file where the WAVE link is created, all you need to do is right click on the child component in the ANT, then click on suppression which is just below reposition I think, then click always suppressed. This turns the icon block icon into dashed blue icon. If the part LOOKS like it has disapeard totally, it hasn't simply right click on the grey bar at the top of the ANT and toggle on include suppressed components. You will only ever have to do this once, and every time you add the wave linked part to another level of assembly, the weight will NEVER be doubled again. If you want to make a change to the parent part, remember to unsuppress the part to allow the changes to flow through when you click update session or what ever way you choose. So simple.

Best regards

Simon NX4.0.4.2 MP10 - TCEng 9.1.3.6.c - (NX6.0.3.6 MP2 native)

http://www.jcb.com

Life shouldn't be measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of times when it's taken away...

 

[hudson888]

Simon,

A technique I often use but not necessarily for this reason. Remember there's more than one way to skin a cat, especially when it come to NX!

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[SiW979]

@ Hudson

Ahh yes! One of the first things I tell a class of new users on day one and then repeat with monotonous regulartiy throughout the 5 day course "With NX there are many ways to skin a cat"

@ Cubalibre00

Depending on how you do business, has a big impact on how you use WAVE. If you use Teamcenter to generate your parts lists, then WAVE is ideal, it will afford you great flexiblity as to how your parts are bought/procured. Take a simple casting for example, we have 2 part numbers. 1 for the cast blank/pattern and one for the finished machined part. by using WAVE, you can create the master part (or blank) then create a new seperate part number for the machining. Add the blank to the new part number and create the WAVE link. This creates a nice parts list that details both parts (if that is what you want of course)

Now, use the method I detailed before to suppress the blank, this will take care of all you weight doubling issues and Teamcenter will also create a parts list detailing the top level part number of the machining and the component part number of the blank. This indicates to purchasing that if you are doing machining in house, then they will need to procure the blank part part number. If you buy the machined part in completely finished, then again you have a number of options, either turn the blank to reference only in NX so that it doesn't feature on a parts list and purchasing only then buy the finished part, but ideally, leave it up to them to decide how they want to buy the part, we personally use the parts list method for all WAVE linked or multi-process parts such as W/A's that have secondry machining operation.

The point I'm getting at, is that if you use WAVE linking, you can use the component suppression very effectively to ensure that mass is always correct. We use masses of WAVE linked parts, and also use other systems to give us cost reports amongst which is Cost/kg for castings so it is imperative that our mass is correct and not doubled up. We also link this mass to the drawing border, and in the past we had a problem where a supplier in the far east had quoted us delivery costs for a casting based on the mass that was displayed in the drawing border which in this case was double. NOT GOOD! So after years of messing around with advanced weight management, reference sets, manually altering density, etc, etc, we discovered component suppression and it has been nothing short of a silver bullet to cure ALL our mass problems associated with the doubling up of WAVE linked parts. (Mind you we still have trouble with the mass of other parts (proprietry parts in iges format or ABI assemblies with mutiple materials or parasolids with internal data missing, but Rome wasn't built in a day and as Hudson so rightly said, there are many ways to skin a cat using NX)

Best regards

Simon NX4.0.4.2 MP10 - TCEng 9.1.3.6.c - (NX6.0.3.6 MP2 native)

http://www.jcb.com

Life shouldn't be measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of times when it's taken away...

 

[hudson888]

Thanks Simon,

Glad you chimed in with that you offered a similar explanation earlier in another thread and it illustrates well how different systems influence why you'd need to have more than one way to do things.

For some reason my old instructor always used to embellish the expression by say "there's more ways to kill a cat than by choking it with whipped cream"! Who thinks these things up?

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[cubalibre000]

Ok...thank you to all.
I use TeamCenter.
I think that promote is the best solution now.
I don't have weight problem, I have correct part list, also in Structure Manager.
I don't have reference set problem.

Regards..

 

[hudson888]

Depending perhaps upon which version of teamcentre you're using then I was once advised that using suppression within teamcentre was not desirable. I never found out why and would have liked to receive an answer. I guess it could either have something to do with the PSE or with how the JT assemblies are/were created.

Best Regards

Hudson

www.jamb.com.au

Nil Desperandum illegitimi non carborundum

 

[cubalibre000]

Hi to all,
if I suppress the part, the part list result incorrect.
If I set to zero the density to the linked body, I lose the correct weight because cut operation are not evaluated.

Regards...

 

[SiW979]

Where are you suppressing the part? using the component supression does not remove it from the parts list, or at least it shouldn't. If you however you arte selecting a component, right clicking, selecting properties, and make component reference only, then this will omit is from the parts list. See the attached image for the correct one.

Best regards

Simon NX4.0.4.2 MP10 - TCEng 9.1.3.6.c - (NX6.0.3.6 MP2 native)

http://www.jcb.com

Life shouldn't be measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the number of times when it's taken away...