E-scooter and E-bike fires 1

[spsalso]

In the olden days, in the US, there were things called "transfers", which were used as implied. You asked for one when you paid your fare boarding a bus or streetcar. It was dated and timed--you had maybe an hour to use it. I do not knew if you could get follow-on transfers, as I never needed to do that.

Here, on BART, you only pay when you leave the station. If you are a tourist, you can ride around all day peering at the sights (not that much fun on the underground sections) and only pay the minimum 1-stop fare when you leave at the station where you entered.

It's been said that my local bus system, AC Transit, must be carrying 6 fares to break even. Have no idea if it's true, but it came from "on high", so it might be.



spsalso

 

[spsalso]

CW81,

That's not quite true. Amazon does sell products. But they also allow other people to sell through them, much like Ebay. When we get bad product, we talk to Amazon and they've always made it right.

Should we intentionally order cheap shoddy crap, we keep our mouths shut when it fails.


spsalso

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

to be honest I only ever buy sold and shipped by amazon. I don't do fulfilled by amazon.

Touch wood haven't had anything dodgy yet. Few screwups over the years though.

Ended up with 36 posh fish knives for the price of 6 and they weren't cheap either. They had got the units wrong on the bin so I got 6 boxs. The customer services just laughed and said no prob's keep them.

Down to 25 now left in my tools after 10 years, they are actually very handy in a tool box. Great for changing tyres on kids bikes or slipping in when you separating something. Although they are not quite up to 1mx1mx50mm paving slabs, hence I am down to 25 with also 6 in the cutlery drawer bing used for food.

 

[davefitz]

I think that a transparent analysis of each battery fire event will provide enough background information to ensure the regulators can develop standards that prevent future fires. If each and every one of these fires is due to either a DIY attempt to overspeed the bike ( eg, use 48 V battery pack with a 24 V motor) or the use of a charger /BMS that does not compy to UL or CSA regs , then those facts should be advertised to the public , and mutli-family buildings should not allow the in-home charging of devices that do not meet the UL or CSA regs. From my personal experience trying to minimize the cost of the e-bike by shopping via alibaba.com, many low cost bikes from china do not appear to meet these standards.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[SnTMan]

...many low cost bikes from china do not appear to meet these standards.

And even the ones that appear to may not. Counterfit bolts, anybody?

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[BrianPetersen]

From my personal experience trying to minimize the cost of the e-bike by shopping via alibaba.com, many low cost bikes from china do not appear to meet these standards.

Companies like Amazon sometimes make an attempt to take non-compliant products off their own marketing, but Amazon is a big enough company which operates in enough countries that there is some recourse available. When the online sale is done through completely offshore means, how do you enforce standards?

I've heard of cases where customs officers have intercepted non-compliant products, but having customs intercept every package and/or shipping container in search of compliance markings on everything, and to make sure there is a retailer involved who can take responsibility, is not happening and I'm not sure we want to go down that path.

If every wheeled vehicle on the roads needed to be licensed and insured, maybe it would help but we'd still have people using non-compliant crap off road. The bicycle lobby would really love that ...

Do-it-yourself battery packs ... yikes. Anyone can buy individual cells.

 

[EdStainless]

The other enforcement mechanism is the one that will never happen, insurance companies.
If they had any guts this would be a non-issue.
Sorry the fire was caused by a non-compliant device, your deductible just doubled.
Of course, if insurance companies had the nerve there would be no seatbelt or helmet laws wither, just tiered coverage.
Pay your money and take your chances.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

like it or not the 110V market is different. Its not designed for, its a money maker so they fiddle things.

Nobody ever designs for 60amp 110V its only ever adapted for the market if its worth it.

I might add my solar hardware actually makes it a marketing plus they don't do USA UL regs its a selling point.

I might add thats the reason why emphases is screwed in 50 hz 230V systems with out the nonsense regulations that they have enforced through politicians.


Enphase is garbage extremely redundant gear without the regs.

 

[TugboatEng]

Maybe the Consumer Product Safety Commission should look into this. If only they weren't so busy already.

 

[spsalso]

I'd say nobody ever designs for 60amp 110V because nobody wires for it.

Typically, 110V circuits only go up to 20 amps. Typically. Over that, they are 220V. THOSE go as high as you want and care to pay for.



spsalso

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

tug serious but if everything is designed for 230v and is fiddled to take 110v its always going to be a screw up

 

[human909]

If the weight and max speed were regulated, and they had to make noise then I wouldn't mind them.
But I have been nearly killed by these a couple of times.

Are we talking about 2tonne motor vehicles or tiny little electric scooters here.

The big issue on our roads is and will remain to be personal motor vehicles. Anything that reduces the prevalence of them is a good thing.

Sure there are teething issues with e-scooters and other micro mobility vehicles. Cars have had over a century of development and are still one of the primary sources of accidental death and serious injury.

Micro mobility vehicles are a solution to many urban and environmental problems caused by motor vehicles. Anybody with an interest in safer, more pleasant and lower environmental impact urban transport should see the benefit in micro mobility vehicles.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

what do you have ?

 

[hokie66]

Some Emergency Room Doctors have a different view from yours, human909. The cost to the public health system is concerning, but I object to the required change in my own lifestyle. I have given up walking in some parts of the city where hired scooters are like ants.

https://www.racq.com.au/articles/evs/2022/10/e-scooter-safety-warning

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

but.. the US market doesn't bother the rest of us that are 230/400v 50 hz.

 

[Sparweb]

The majority of the problems in e-bikes seem to come from Lithium-Ion cells. The chances of a fire from Lithium-polymers is much lower.

 

[BrianPetersen]

The majority of the problems seem to come from Li-ion cells with improper charging and battery-management - and probably cheap Li-ion cells with who-knows-what quality control. Doesn't matter if it's phones or laptops or e-bikes or power tools or what-not.

Gizmocontraptions with Li-ion batteries that have proper BMS and good quality cells don't catch fire much.

So, how do you stop someone buying stuff overseas and bypass all administrative and regulatory protections because they could get it at a cheaper price?

 

[epoxybot]

Why not just buy a mobility scooter? They come with a 'Bucket Seat'! They move at a good clip. You don't have to park. You can just drive right into the store and they don't seem to have the same fire issues as all the new contraptions. I've seen some very tricked out off-road mobility scooters. Just think, we could turn all those 4-lane boulevards into 8 LANES.

 

[spsalso]

"but.. the US market doesn't bother the rest of us that are 230/400v 50 hz."

Curiously, it goes the other direction, also.


spsalso

 

[TugboatEng]

Spsalso, you called me out. My 10% funding number was a reference to AC Transit.