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E-scooter and E-bike fires 1

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From one of the above:

"One of our challenges is the fact that people are choosing to source product that either should not be [used] together or is of a very low or very inferior quality," he said.

"There is very good quality product being sold through reputable outlets and we want to make sure that as we move forward, the legislation supports the use of these bikes and scooters because we know it has a positive impact."

And more ...

Melbourne-based lithium-ion battery manufacturers like Zakk Goodsell, whose company makes batteries for drones, said it was important for consumers to understand the inherent risk in buying cheap and poorly made products.

"We are worried about undue fear of the technology," Mr Goodsell said.

"It is not inherently more unsafe than say, using a petrol-powered device, but it can get blown out of proportion when incidents occur," he said. "However, the more prolific the products become the more chance that fires will occur.

So, how do you stop someone buying stuff overseas and bypass all administrative and regulatory protections because they could get it at a cheaper price?

"What we are worried about as manufacturers is the lack of appropriate regulation and education around how to use these products appropriately."
 
Batteries used to be extremely safe alkaline and lead acid were essential impossible to set on fire. Lead acid had the hydrogen problem that was easily mitigated by leaving holes on the top of the enclosure. But saying lithium batteries aren't anymore unsafe than petrol engine isn't exactly good advertising considering most people don't run petrol devices in their homes.
 
Some old one liners:
Lucas. Prince of Darkness.
The three positions of a Lucas headlight switch; Off, Dim, Flicker.
Lucas also makes brake systems for trucks.
The motto of the brake division.
"We carry on where others halt."
And of course, the warm bear. Lucas makes refrigerators.

I am wondering where 110 Volts, 60 Hz is used.
It was phased out in North America in the 50s and 60s.
Standard voltages and the rated voltages on appliances jumped every 5 years.
I remember 112 Volt appliances, 115 Volt appliances, 117 Volt appliances and finally 120 Volt appliances.
Motor standard voltages stopped at 115 Volts and multiples thereof to allow for line drop.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
 
You mention Lucas to the younger generations and they don't have a clue what your on about.

I have a liking for German TUV electrical gear.

British apart from MK sockets I tend to avoid.

110V was always the standard building site tools voltage in Europe.

 
Actually here is an example of something I would be a bit wary of using 120V 60HZ but don't have an issue with 230V 50HZ low usage.

I have just ordered one due to finding out that AGM stop start battery's have a bit of a problem with your old none smart chargers.


The local ones as far as I can tell are the same model but with a different sticker on and they are wanting 120 euro for them. The German smart chargers twice that! But as its only for occasional emergency use it will do.

What I think is common is people get something like that and they get absolutely hammered everyday. I wouldn't expect it to survive doing 3 repair runs a day for a month. BUt that's what folk are doing with these e bike chargers, charge one battery pack and stick the old one on to charge come back later after using the fresh one up and swap. And they may have 2-3 bikes being serviced by the same charger.
 
Sure Alistair, they come from the same factory and are in the same case with all the same stickers.
But that doesn't mean that any of the design or parts are the same.
I have tried buying replacement parts electronics online and unless the link to the online store is directly from the original sellers web site I won't trust it.
The online resellers don't care if products are criminally bad as long as they get their cut.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
 
That's the good thing about buying German stuff. They have a right to fix law and its pretty easy to get spare parts in Germany. Infect a lot of the gear you can get direct from the OEM.

Swedish as well is designed to be fixed though even though I don't think they have a law,
 
Its all about Li Ion battery's. There have been plenty of EV's and EV buses that have done the same.
 
Yep don't understand why li-ion is even legal to be used for solar inside houses.
 
enginesrus said:
Its all about Li Ion battery's. There have been plenty of EV's and EV buses that have done the same.

Only improperly-engineered ones.

Ballpark one-in-a-thousand combustion-engine vehicles is involved in a reported car fire in the USA every year. (174,000ish reported vehicle fires in USA in 2021)

The rate of fires among EVs in the US market is something like an order of magnitude lower, possibly even less. The difference seems to be that every single one makes the nightly news.
 
Well if Boeing couldn't engineer them not to go on fire in the 787....
 
In the US responsibility for regulation is a bit scattered. I found the following on UL's site, some attention to requiring adherence to safety standards is emerging.

[URL unfurl="true" said:
https://www.ul.com/industries/automotive-and-mobility/micromobility-device-testing-and-certification[/URL]]New York City Council’s law on micromobility devices and batteries
In a move to strengthen fire safety of e-bikes, e-scooters, and the lithium-ion batteries that power such devices, the New York City Council has passed a new law on Mar 2, 2023, mandating e-bikes, e-scooters, e-mobility devices, and light electric vehicle (EV) battery packs to be 3rd party certified to:
[ul]
[li]UL 2849, the Standard for Electrical Systems for eBikes[/li]
[li]UL 2272, the Standard for Electrical Systems in Personal E-Mobility Devices[/li]
[li]UL 2271, the Standard for Batteries for Use In Light Electric Vehicle (LEV) Applications[/li]
[/ul]
This will take effect from August 29, 2023, which means that the distribution, sale, lease or rental of micromobility devices or batteries that have not been certified to the applicable UL safety standards by an accredited testing laboratory will be prohibited. For details of the law that has passed, you may find it at this link.
I do mot remember seeing any third party testing laboratory marks on the local fleet of e-scooters.
 
some ferry boats are now refusing to allow EV cars to board due to the inability to put out a fire at sea and its reultant effect on passenger safety. It is just a matter of time before a similar restriction is applied to parking an EV below a building.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick
 
I looked for background concerning the above post, and I found this, concerning ONE ferry company:
Evidently this is based upon a risk assessment that was done for the company.

"The competitor Hurtigruten makes a different assessment and will continue to allow all types of cars."

I know about risk assessments. They can be subject to interpretation. A risk analysis that considers only the "severity" of a particular event can have one outcome, while another that considers the "frequency" as well could have another outcome.

If the overall fire risk of an EV, taking into account both how severe the outcome is and how frequently it occurs, is so dramatically high compared to conventional cars then it would absolutely show up in higher insurance rates, and my personal experience is that this is not the case.

It is fair to say that EV fires can be difficult to put out ... but it also has to be said that the frequency of such events is extremely low, and particularly if the vehicle is neither being driven nor is plugged in and charging nor is being involved in a flood.
 
risk can be economic and if revenue pays for the risk then its fine.
 
That depends on whose risk and whose revenue.
 
And of course the MBA's bonus point.
 
Here is a link to the EU issues related to ferry boats carrying EV's. The basic safety recommendations seem to be to board them if they are lesss than 50% charged. Several ship fires were worsened by the onboard fire spreading to the EV's, making the fire impossible to put out.

<

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick
 
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