E-scooter and E-bike fires 1

[debodine]

It would seem that improper charging and improper storage are typical causes if not the primary causes of these flammability issues. I would think that the next major change needed for this industry is to idiot-proof the charging and storage requirements. I am not in that industry, but if anyone on the forum is in the industry, it would be nice to hear how efforts are progressing for those areas.

 

[SwinnyGG]

And we have a company called Bolt which does escooters via an app on the phone. There is a map which tells you where the nearest one is and how much range it has and logs you into it via a bar code and logs you off it at the other end. They are about 1.50 euro for 5 km. They are not slow either two settings 15km/hour or 25km/hr. The its not worth owning your own at that price for me.

These are now basically universal in all major cities in the US. There are maybe a dozen different companies, which all operate on the same model. Find a scooter (or just walk up to one and scan a QR code) using their app, pay a few bucks, speed off into the night.

Each city has their own ordinances that govern the scooters. Some cities limit how many companies and how many scooters in service per company, etc. Some limit the area they can be used. Some have no rules in place at all - and in those cities, in my experience, the scooters become an absolute plague; there will be piles of them in the sidewalk on every downtown corner that has a bar on a Friday or Saturday night, to the point where people on foot sometimes have to walk in the street to get around them. So having limits sounds draconian but seems to be the best policy so far in a lot of places.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

its the cheaper preferred chemistry that carries the risk.

 

[enginesrus]

Some one needs to start manufacturing in house battery storage containers that are like huge fire places or ovens with smoke stacks, so we all can safely store all our Li battery devices in the home.

 

[IRstuff]

so we all can safely store all our Li battery devices in the home.

That's great for small batteries, but not so much for electric cars; I doubt that anyone can even remove such batteries without an autoshop/tools.

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[TugboatEng]

This was an April Fool's joke:

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/04...ration will issue,pose to the general public.

But, it's all a joke until one these cars catches fire on a bridge or worse, in a tunnel. Tank trucks and hazardous chemical carriers are already banned on our local bridges and in our tunnels.

 

[hokie66]

I see it reported that Paris will be banning rental E-scooters. Good riddance.

 

[davefitz]

Uh Huh, I can see it now- a LNG transport truck , powered by a lithium battery, catches fire in the middle of the Lincoln tunnel. A good day to be on vacation in Hawaii.

Actually there are a lot of potential hazards associated with the lithium batteries. Airlines already prohibit them in checked baggage. Imagine some woke person installs a household lithium battery on the 20th floor of a 60 floor high rise and it catches fire. A good day to be working late at the office with the personal secretary.

Other high hazard locations include ferries, underground parking lots, parking near storage tanks that contain flammable fluids, etc. The regulations that prohibit the use or locations of these batteries might not yet be fully mature and may not be regarded as neccesary until after some dramatic catastrophe occurs.



"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

they are a fecking nightmare on an aircraft. Be it in the hold or in the cabin.

 

[IRstuff]

It seems to me that the penalty for making crappy products is too lenient, or nonexistent.

Another method for controlling bad product is to do what China did when powdered milk producers were found to be supplementing their products with melamine powder; they executed the producers, after fair and impartial trials.

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[Alistair_Heaton]

Even the high spec good Li ion products are self combusting in aircraft cabins. I phones getting crushed with seat get reclined have more of a hit rate than android. Quite why the stats differentiate between the two i have absolutely no clue.

And no I don't have a link and no I am not going to post an internally issued document from my company's safety department

 

[SwinnyGG]

We're talking about events that happen in maybe the dozen or so range per year across literally billions of devices in use... does anyone think that eliminating every possible failure is a real possibility?

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

its way way more than a dozen in the USA alone never mind world wide.

As a relatively small airline we have 5-10 li ion events per year in the cabin.

 

[debodine]

I read an article just today from the FAA fire safety website (links below first to FAA website and second to the PDF). The central point is that the State of Charge greatly influences the relative hazard of Lithium-ion batteries. The greater the State of Charge percentage (Actual Charge divided by Full Charge Capacity multiplied by 100) the greater the hazard for both initiating a fire and contributing to a fire started from another source.

https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/

https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/tctn23-34.pdf

 

[IRstuff]

The central point is that the State of Charge greatly influences the relative hazard of Lithium-ion batteries.

That would make sense; a dead battery has not much energy to do much of anything. So, just need to discharge the batteries before shipping; easy-peasy

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[hokie66]

Perhaps banning E-scooter hire will help. But maybe not, as the ones which cause fires are charged at home, not on the street. But it is a step in the right direction, safety wise.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/05/opinions/escooters-paris-ban-safety-filipovic/index.html

 

[IRstuff]

But maybe not, as the ones which cause fires are charged at home, not on the street.

The freestanding e-bikes and scooters on the street aren't charged on the street; that would take way too much infrastructure and time. Instead, a truck goes around the city and swaps out discharged batteries for fresh ones.

The French rejection of e-scooters, etc., probably wasn't about anything other than not being a French idea; it's just the way they roll.

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[hokie66]

I get what you say about the French. But I just hope that my city, Brisbane, will get the message. These scooters clog up the hospital emergency departments, as told by the emergency doctors and ambulance drivers.

 

[davefitz]

here is another ship that lost all its cargo due to a EV lithium fire aboard the ship

https://marineindustrynews.co.uk/ship-carrying-4000-luxury-cars-sinks-in-atlantic-after-fire/

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[hokie66]

This was discussed when it happened last year.

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