'Educated' opinions on climate change 41

[csd72]

As engineers we are educated in physics and chemistry and should have a reasonable idea on what really effects the energy consumption that causes climate change. I am looking for peoples opinions on what suggestions have been good ideas to reduce your individual impact. Alternatively what suggestions have you heard that are utter nonsense.

It would be good to hear comments from engineers on this matter.

 

[sms]

Nuclear power anyone? It works for Pete!! Energy density in uranium is a bit higher than coal, not so much fuel involved in moveing fuel around as with coal, or even natural gas.

Might put Dave out of business though as moving gas is his business.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

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[zdas04]

SMS,
I started out in Nuclear Power, I guess I could go back if I had to. Seriously, the energy density of Uranium is greater than coal by some number approaching the square of the speed of light. The ship I was on went something like 1/2 million miles on a new reactor core--the same distance would require many millions of tons of coal. A phenomenal savings in the cost of fuel-transport.

David

 

[mls1]

I'm a Navy nuke retread myself. Amazing how much energy we got out of a single core.

I've got a buddy who owns a company that installs pneumatic controlled bladders in home ventilation ducts for room by room temperature control. It pays for itself, especially in the bigger houses. I don't have a system in my home but I close the vent ducts in rooms that aren't used. That saves a bit.

Solar hot-water preheaters should be standard in all new houses. Other than the asthetics why aren't they more prevalant?

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

mls1,

I think the only reason solar water heaters aren't more popular is poor marketing. If people really understood the system, understood how easy it is to install, and understood how short the payback time is (2-3 years), I think everyone would get one.

PV is reaching a tipping point as well. Some issues aside, there are several companies making real strides in cutting down production costs.

 

[KENAT]

Re-reading the OP, I don't see nuclear directly helping to reduce individual impace

Good point on the solar water heating, I live in the desert and can't believe more people don't have it. I rent or I'd look at installing it.

As to utter nonsense, Myth Busters had a good one last night on some of the internet schemes to increase vehicle mileage - they were all, surprisingly, bunk.



KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[electricpete]

mls1... I read your comments and apparently you also think it is absurd to claim any link between fossil fuels and the observed increase in CO2?

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[Ashereng]

What can I do personally to reduce energy consumption? Well, as a start:

1) drink tap water
2) buy a water bottle and fill it up before I go out
3) when the cashier starts to put the socks I just purchased into a bag (any bag), I just say "Thanks, I'm good." and proceed to stuff them into my coat pocket.
4) use credit card instead of "real money" (if we can reduce the total amount of money they have to print, maybe I can even reduce my taxes? Or not.)
5) turn off the lights when I leave the room (see mom, I was listening)
6) turn off the TV when I go to bed (see mom, two things)
7) water the grass/lawn at 5 AM
8) I just got a whole bunch of the florescent "green" replacement bulbs (the packaging says I am saving about 40 W a bulb)
9) reuse grocery bags
10) plant a new tree from seedling in the front yard (by hand). Not sure if this reduces consumption, but you just added a new CO2 converter.
11) traded in the old Jeep Cherokee for a new Toyota Highlander Hybrid (about the same size with better gas mileage anyways)

There are lots of "smarter" things you can do, without really sacrificing anything ... and you don't really have to change much either.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[sms]

Sorry, I forgot the individual impact. Got caught up in Dave's very good point about how what we do at work is orders of magnitude above what we do as individuals.

Dave, I was being a bit sarcastic about the energy density. Sarcasm often doesn't work well in print. BTW I also started my career in nuclear power.




"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[electricpete]

I saw the 2nd mention of energy efficient bulbs. I haven't paid much attention to those yet but I've just been learning a little and I'm definitely going to buy some. Seems pretty easy (except you need a special bulb for a dimmer circuit).

http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/25_44

Above they conclude you save $36 in the life of a bulb... or more if you you pay more than 8 cents per KW.

And remember that during air-conditioning season (which is the better part of the year where I live), the inefficiency of an incandescent bulb hurts you twice... once when you expend extra electricity to generate heat along with your light, and a second time when you spend extra to remove that heat with your ac.

And if you're lazy like me... you'll be happy to know you won't be replacing bulbs as much.

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[sms]

Pete, I switched every bulb in the house to CF's. The intermediaries that sell me power from your plant charge me 13.5 cents/kwh. My lovely wife was mostly interested in not having to change bulbs, but they have saved me money..

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" Oddball, "Kelly's Heros" 1970

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[electricpete]

A whole lot of intermediaries. We make that electricity for about 2 cents per kw/hr.

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[electricpete]

I meant kw-hr

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[jmw]

Erm,
replace "Energy saving" light bulbs with reular and just use them less? There is a whole critique of the fluorescent type out there somewhere.
If I had a Hybrid car, trade it for a Jeep Cherokee and drive to an office not work at home.
???
Ashes to ashes apparently the Jeep Cherokee is top of the list and the leading hybrid somewhere near 64th because of the special steel, the battery life.
Yes, someone just produced a study that shows that home workers consume more energy individually than if they went the average 33miles to work and back and shared the communal resources at the office.

Of course, in today's newspaper we have two articles on dairy products. One claims that there are lots of health benefits from drinking a pint of milk a day etc and the other wants to see dairy products taxed like cigarettes because they are harmful.
So some of these measures are beset with conflicting information. The easiest thing I can do is wait for my light bulbs to dim before I make a choice and let my current car creep on till it drops.

On the other hand, there is something I can do which is lobby my local council to switch of all street lights after say 2am. Anyone out after that can carry a torch.
If we could do something constructive about crime we could cut back on "security lighting".
Bring back school buses (including electric) and make it compulsory to use them or walk (as suggested above). This would not only save energy it would lower a lot of blood pressure readings and perhaps save a few lives.

Of course, just as building houses on flood plains is pretty stupid, building houses in regions which make them energy intensive should have some limits too. If you live in a desert, expect to get hot in the day and cold at night. Sure, air conditioning makes some of these places livable, but should there be a limit of the amount of cooling?

Supermarkets definitely need to do something about open front chiller cabinets. Recycling plastic bags is fine but is this a big impact item or a little impact item in their overall contribution?

In fact, why do we need so much frozen food? Why not buy what we need when we need it? A few tinned goods will make sure we don't starve if there is a supply glitch.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

It was the Jeep Wrangler, not the Jeep Cherokee that was top of the ashes to ashes list.

 

[electricpete]

I didn't realize those compact flourescents had mercury like the older flourescents, but it makes sense. For the homeowner using those bulbs, the implications are:
1 - know what to do if one breaks
2 - dispose of properly

http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/cflcleanup.pdf

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[KENAT]

So you don't like Compact Florescent bulbs, use LED instead. It’s gonna cost you big bucks now but is going down, supposedly.

As regard the Compact Florescent having mercury, this is true. However I saw figures (something along the lines of) that if the electricity you use is largely coal based then because you burn less coal (which releases mercury to the environment), you actually reduce the total mercury released. And of course if you actually send your bulb to the proper disposal place then you shouldn’t actually release the mercury, if I understand properly.

Why not use CFL and use them less and recycle them, win win win, no?

I’ve got mostly CFL at home. There’s a couple of light fittings where they don’t fit/couldn’t find the right size. Plus I figured it was wasteful to replace regular bulbs before they died so didn’t’ look to hard for smaller ones that would fit yet.

Also the new CFL don’t take 5 minutes to ‘warm up’ like the ones back in the early 90s did and the light quality is comparable to incandescent now.

We have a swamp/evaporative cooler at home (in desert), it costs a lot less to run than central air. Supposedly it only keeps the house around 20° F cooler but if you set the thermostat really low (60-65 ish) then overnight it will cool the whole house so even when the temperature outside hits 110 in the afternoon the house should stay down at around 75-80. With the help of a fan or two this is pretty bearable, even for someone hot blooded like me! Does give the perverse situation that first thing in the morning we’re wrapped up to keep warm and shaving/showering is a pretty cold experience!

Another one, minimize the size of house/volume of the house you are heating or cooling.




KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[dcasto]

On the CO2 versus global warming, Al Gore has the cause and effect backwards. The earth is warming naturally (naturally means not man made)in the solar cycle. This increase in temperature cause CO2 stored in the oceans and other places (ice, biomass, rocks..) to be released into the atmosphere.

 

[Tomfh]

It's well understood that temperature increase makes CO2 rise.
It's also well understood that CO2 absorbs infra red radiation and thus makes temperature rise.

Al Gore isn't denying the first point, he is simply highlighting the second point.



As for the solar cycle theory, I presume you are quoting The Great Global Warming Swindle. TGGWS claims onscreen that the solar data comes from Christesen et al, but here's what Christensen had to say about the data as shown in the program:

Christenssen: We have concerns regarding the use of a graph featured in the documentary titled ‘Temp & Solar Activity 400 Years’. Firstly, we have reason to believe that parts of the graph were made up of fabricated data that were presented as genuine...

...Secondly, although the commentary during the presentation of the graph is consistent with the conclusions of the paper from which the figure originates, it incorrectly rules out a contribution by anthropogenic [man-made] greenhouse gases to 20th century global warming,"

When Durkin (TGGWS's producer) was questioned on these points by some other scientists, he responded as follows:

go and f*** yourself

and

“You’re a big daft cock.”

 

[owg]

Thanks for the link to the light bulb site at EFI. We live in a cold climate and heat with gas. We changed a few bulbs in high use services. I figure it does not make sense to change bulbs in places like bedrooms. The heat I don't get from the bulbs I have to make up with gas. At 1 hour per day, it would take 27 years to get the $36 according to the EFI site which I suspect does not take into account heat replacement and infrequent use. Since I only expect to live for 10 more years, some incandescents are staying. Anyway my wife doesn't like those new bulbs that take a second to come on, then gradually get brighter. Maybe the newer ones are better, so I have to redo the economics and write off the old ones and make sure I dispose of them properly?

HAZOP at

http://www.curryhydrocarbons.ca

 

[electricpete]

I agree that if you are in heating season, the energy benefit greatly diminished. (The incandescent bulbs are good heaters.)

An interesting alternative use for those compact flourescent bulbs (although not really in the spirit of this thread): instead of reducing the energy input, you can boost the light output if you have a dark corner that is not well enough lit by existing fixture. For example putting a 250W equivalent output cf into a 100 watt bulb (after verifyihng the new bulb draws less than 100W).

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