Engineering as a commodity: Can we reverse the trend? 38

[lacajun]

--
From Engineering News-Record, 4/23/2012, Gary J. Tulacz:

This view is hurting the designers, too. "Engineering has always been a problem-solving profession," says Giorgio. "When you treat design like a commodity, it will be managed that way, without regard to the value-added capabilities of the top problem-solvers."

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[SNORGY]

lacajun,

If controls is what you do, I know two or three such folks up here who do quite well as independents. Granted, they are not all PE's (P.Eng.'s) since they do well enough with CET / RET (technology) designations. Up here, I think a P.Eng. in your line of work could write his or her own ticket for success. In fact, some small companies have sprung up that are geared solely towards that purpose. In that way, some EPC companies can outsource their controls work to outfits or independents.

The EPC firm where I work now are discovering that "Controls" people are in short supply. You would do well up here, as I am sure you will be able to do anywhere, in time.

Myself, there does not seem to be a strong market demand for well rounded mechanical engineering generalists who are Jacks Of All Trades But Masters Of None, at least not as independents. I have had my own company for over a decade, but I have remained a full time employee with an EPC firm at the same time. I only do my own thing on occasion, with the requisite full disclosures etc. in place. I suppose there are now a few things that I could do in my own company (piping stress for example), but the one thing that I appear to be better at than most of my peers is Project Engineering / Management which, unfortunately, I absolutely hate doing, and which has no "engineering" component to it. My life sucks that way: what I am really good at, I hate; what I like to do, others (specialists in the field) can do better than I can do.

This self-defeating viewpoint has hitherto prevented me from taking the plunge that you have taken.

I do have a couple of months off starting July 1, when I start my "summer job" (which doesn't pay nearly as much but is countless loads more fun and rewarding than any facet of engineering). I think I need to take my own advice, do some thinking during that time, and figure out a way to do my own thing, maybe with a few like-minded engineers and technologists that can do the things that I, personally, cannot do.

As risky and expensive as it is, I believe that the plunge that you, and others like you and moltenmetal, have taken is the right thing to do.

 

[lacajun]

SNORGY, thanks for the tips and information.

I have some good things going on with my company, if I can lead them into positive cash flow. I'm going to stay the course awhile and see what happens. I'm working diligently towards some goals. I was laid up this week but will be hard at it tomorrow.

Half of my brother-in-law's family is from Winterpeg. As much as I love them, I decline their offers to live there. They seem to love me in return and want me nearby. This has been an ongoing discussion for about the last 17 years. My sister's in-laws treat me as they do my sister, i.e., like part of the family. When Mother died, her mother-in-law and a brother-in-law flew down to help us out. We've spent holidays and vacations together but Canadian winters are bitterly cold for my Southern blood. Four or five days in Winterpeg for Christmas is about all I can do. Brrrr!...!!...!!!!

There are better controls and instrument people than me. Somehow, there has been room for me, too, and I am very grateful. There is room for you, too, Jack-of-all-Trades-Master-of-None.

From my perspective, an ME who is a good generalist would be an asset. Many engineers become myopic in focus thus loose their ability to do much beyond citing codes, rotating equipment, relief valves, or something else. To have an ME that has remained broad in application is rare. That may not apply in large numbers but it's been true of my observations. Some of the best MEs I've worked with had a range of abilities and they made excellent discipline engineers and project managers. Those MEs used their engineering experience a lot to keep the project moving forward and moving forward smoothly. If you go solo, you never know what work will come your way.

If you go it alone and can find partners who are like-minded, that's probably the best way to do it.

Whatever you do, the first thing you need to do is get rid of that defeated way of thinking. You're educated, experienced and obviously not intimidated by work, challenges, or others. You certainly don't lack intellect. That is a lot to be grateful for and to offer others. You have a good sense of humor, too, which is priceless in many situations.

Three things pushed me in this direction: a layoff and two subsequent resignations, almost back-to-back, over ethics issues. Doing this was something planned for retirement not now. My plans didn't seem to take root...

Be sure going solo is what you want to do. It isn't easy and it is expensive. I am using my own money to finance it. I can't get a loan from the bank. It is unnerving initially but it gets easier over the months. Most have little patience or stomach for this and, granted, they do have more responsibility. I am single, no kids, and have no life so it's easier for me. If I become homeless, I can live under a bridge until I get on my feet again. I am a backpacker so grunge in small doses is tolerable. ;-) That is harder to do with a wife and kids.

I think I still have some worksheets to use as an evaluation for your tolerance for getting out on your own. They include your wife's input, too. If you want them, let me know. I'll be glad to send them to you, if I still have them.

Mostly this is between the Lord and me. With my raunchy childhood, I don't know how to trust Him. This is an exercise in learning how to trust Him with everything. My dad was not a loyal dad in any way so trust is a big issue with me. I am accustomed to having to do it all and not rely on others for anything. This is so overwhelming I cannot do it all. I know I need help and the only help I have is God. He's got to show up or I continue not knowing how to trust Him with all things in my life. It's a huge leap of faith for me. This is part of faith at which I stinketh. I either swim or sink.

That probably doesn't apply to you and most others here. I reveal it to help you understand my mindset and events leading to this point in my life. Your life, I hope, has been much, much better than mine in all ways.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[MikeHalloran]

My favorite line, at least within "Forrest Gump", is

"right about then, God showed up"

.

He may not show up in the way you expect.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[lacajun]

Thanks, Mike! His plans are not my plans, for sure.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[moltenmetal]

lacajun: I didn't found the firm, and am grateful to those who did. But I did have the wits to join and to stay. Then again, I've paid my gratitude to them many-fold in the money I've made for them over the years, so I think we're square.

 

[SNORGY]

lacajun,

Thanks for the words and encouragement.

Every bit helps. If you do have those worksheets that you mentioned, perhaps you can direct me to where I might be able to get a hold of them. Sometimes seeing how others have structured the thought process behind how to plan such a thing gives that one answer that makes or breaks the indecisiveness.

With respect to trusting Him, as the folks at Nike would say, "Just do it." He won't let you down.

In Denmark there is a rather famous saying; I actually have it in the form of a decorator plate on my wall:

"God gives us the nuts, but he doesn't crack them for us."

Keep plugging away, you will be fine.

 

[KENAT]

Wow, I'll back up what Greg said, there are entire countries that apparently only have trade schools for Engineering (my 'trade school' was a bit less elite than Greg's though).

Funny thing is, based on my experiences and this site I'm tempted to say folks that came from those trade schools generally seem at least as well rounded as those from the US systems.

I'm almost tempted to say more well rounded but that would be at best anecdote not evidence in any meaningful way so why upset my fellow countrymen (and women).

Either way, I can't help thinking a lot of these none core courses are just at best about generating revenue, and at worst are attempts at political indoctrination based on one course my wife's school tried to make her take.

As for the elitist protection of the word Engineer idea etc. that's a deader horse than the main topic of this thread.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[lacajun]

SNORGY, I'm at an ISA conference this week but will look when I get home. I don't have them on this PC.

KENAT, isn't well roundedness in an individual up to the individual and the choices he or she makes?

I don't think protecting the term engineer is elitist or dead. I know techs who claim to be engineers but they cannot make basic calculations or possess basic engineering knowledge to back it up. Should we accept them as engineers? I am curious only and don't have an axe to grind with you.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[KENAT]

If well roundedness is up to the individual, then why does the American College system seem to try and force it on students?

Posting guidelines faq731-376

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(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[CheckerHater]

To kenat: to make them less square.

To all:

According to the books on economics “commoditization” leads to “perfect competition”.

Are you folks worried about second or the first?

 

[Twoballcane]

I don't think the colleges are forcing anything . The students are the ones who chose to go to that college for that curriculum and most likely prepared themselves by taking the necessary math and science class in high school to prep them for an engineering degree. If the student was more into the technical hardware side, like diesel engines, then the student would go to technical high school and prep by taking hands on training on engines in general and then go to a two year (or even less) tech school and receive a certificate. Even better would be to be trained by the manufacture of the engine. Even in this career path, there is animosity between the ones who were formally trained and the ones who learned by just working at your nearest garage.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”

 

[JohnRBaker]

Since it appears that we're approaching the 100th post, I thought it might be time for a bit of germane humor; advice about some electives that perhaps today's students should be considering as they prepare to enter the real world:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thoug...es-that-would-actually-prepare_b_1625293.html

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[cranky108]

Don't you think a class on common since would make someone well rounded than many of the classes offered?

 

[TGS4]

ccrank108 - but what if you failed Common Sense 101? Would that be as damaging to your career as failing Ethics 300? Or would failing Common Sense 101 be a prerequisite for other degrees (SNORGY, I'm looking at you to finish this thought for me...)

 

[lacajun]

KENAT, I don't know that we're forced to take courses to round us out. People can always find an alternative. Often people will not seek knowledge in other areas they truly need to seek. They can not learn the "softer side of life" in spite of sitting in a class and passing it. I enjoy learning about "the softer side of life" from others and need to learn about many of those things. But there is only so much time in life and I wouldn't forsake knowledge I need to do engineering for humanities. Overall, I learned that getting the BS matured me quite a bit. Consequently, I am of the opinion that education in general matures people. It opens the mind.

CheckerHater, I would say the books on economics have it wrong. I've not seen perfect competition. But, my room temperature IQ probably cannot see it.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[zdas04]

You simply can't make someone learn material they don't have an interest in. I had to take several classes that I had no interest in. I got good grades in all of them, but 2 days after finals I couldn't recall a thing about them (and a year later I couldn't remember having taken them). That experience didn't really help round me out much. I've read 2-3 books/week for the last 50 years. I have had exposure to a significant range of ideas and philosophies. The "humanities" courses I was forced to take actually delayed my lifetime study of mankind.

There is a (long)list of the things an Engineer must be proficient in. Not all of them involve numbers, but very few of them are included in the list of Humanities Electives that my son had to choose from.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I get this feeling that a lot people here have little or no idea of what it means to attend a UNIVERSITY. It's really sad in many ways.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[KENAT]

So enlighten us John.

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[GregLocock]

I am all ears.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[SNORGY]

TGS4...

I do not remember any degree program where failing Common Sense 101 was a prerequisite. It could be that there is something wrong with me.

In fact, it Might Be Amnesia.