engineering outlook for us young guys 19

[kchida]

I need opinions from experienced engineers. You guys have seen the short-term and long-term trends. Do you all notice a trend that might indicate that engineering will be a krappy choice of occupation in the coming decades? I've just come into the field, so my perspective is skewed.

I'm turning 25 in a month, so I have a good 40 years to go in my career (that's a whole lot longer than the amount of time I've been hanging out on this planet). I need some serious advice. Should I jump ship now and do something else besides engineering? This would require me to go back to school.

Medicine is strong in the states and will probably remain so, at least for my lifetime (maybe?). Well, what about biomedical engineering then? Could this possibly be a future engineering "oasis"?

Keep in mind that I have high expectations for my future standards of living. At the peak of my career, I'd like to maintain a lifestyle comparable to that of somebody today earning $200k (household), in Southern California. Again, this will be based on a dual-income, so I would need to be making at least half of that. I don't want my kids to grow up in a poor household. I want to ensure that they have access to things that I didn't have.

Seriously, should I defect to another field? Should I throw it all away, run and never look back? I think I'm good for at least 10 more years, but will I hit an unavoidable roadblock at that time. What would you do in my situation?

 

[epoisses]

I don't believe engineering will be a crappy choice of occupation at all, certainly electrical. Why would the need for electrical engineers collapse? And why would you throw away what you like and what you're good at, just because you think your future is doomed because other people say so? (as said in another thread, I refuse to be pessimist).

However if you really want to get rich better start your own business, be creative and lucky and work your @$$ off, because I don't know any engineer multi millionaire other than a few CEOs.

 

[moltenmetal]

The best in any profession do well. You live in the country with the world's most powerful economy. For the best of the best, there will always be opportunity there. Focus on being the best of the best.

If you love engineering, do it for a living and you'll become good at it. If you're wishy-washy about it or made a bad choice in relation to your interests and aptitudes, do yourself and future colleagues a BIG favour and find something else to do! Life's too short to spend 40-70 hours per week doing something you hate or you're no good at.

If work interest isn't all that important to you and all you want is the certainty of gobs of money, dentistry or optometry might have been good options if you'd decided to go that way sooner. But if you go back to school NOW, it's questionable whether or not you'll ever recover the cost of the extra four plus years of school PLUS internship/associate practice etc. As your engineering economics course should have taught you, the early money is more important than the later money, provided you have the wisdom to do something sensible with it like pay down debt etc.

Yes there are challenges going forward. Engineering definitely isn't as good a gig as it was thirty or forty years ago for sure. Fortunately you're in the US- in Canada there's currently a massive oversupply of engineers which affects people at the beginning of their Canadian careers worst of all. But the very best candidates can still find work here and always will. And though the compensation earned by the average engineer isn't truly commensurate with the educational investment and personal responsibility required, it's not chump change either. And as far as money goes, one truth stands out: there are lots of top-notch engineers earning sub-par salaries because although they're technically brilliant, they have no idea what they're worth financially and no gumption to do anything about it. They do the rest of us a disservice- so don't be one of them!

Long term, it would appear that you chose a reasonably good time to be born. Opportunities will open up for you big time when the baby boom generation retires. There will be good positions in firms and good opportunities to buy existing businesses- far more of them for sale than there are people with the funds to step in and buy them, which means good conditions for the buyers. The latter part of your career looks sweet if you can establish yourself well in the first ten to twenty years of it.

 

[PSE]

Engineering has provided you with a terrific foundation from which to persue various career paths. How it evolves is up to you and your goals. One of which is eventually a 100K+ salary. You might have to eventually go the managerial route and become a corporate officer, perhaps try patent law, or as epoisses pointed out, start your own business (and hope it is successful). Save early, reduce/eliminate debt, and invest so that the money you are able to keep can be put to work for you.

We are not any more likely of predicting the next hot engineering fields than you are. Yes there are clues out there so keep reading and being up to date on research. I am sure EE's will be of use in Biomedical as well as many other fields.

Regards,

 

[Comcokid]

The previous two responses have been from Chemical and Industrial engineers. Let an Electrical engineer respond.

If you are an Electrical engineer doing electronics or software design, you may find a career where age descrimination slowly sets in beginning at the age of 30. Age is equivalent (in by many in management) to be equivalent to cost and/or obsolence. If you are specialized in RF or Analog design (especially analog/semiconductor design), then age is mostly equivalent to experience.

Of course, this is not true in every company, but given the employment ups and down of the electronics industry you can't count on staying with one company forever. Most electronics types work closely connected with electronics design or manafacturing and much of this is moving offshore. Defense and aerospace electronics has undergone considerable consolidation the past 10 years.

The electrical engineering employment picture in California the past 15 years has seen some several dramatic employment ups and downs as well.

If you are a electrical engineer in the area of Power generation and Power Transmission line, then what I have posted does not apply.

 

[wes616]

I throughly believe this (but it causes some roughed feathers on this board). Do something you love, and the money will come... don't let it be your end goal. Honestly a pacheck will never make up for personal unhapiness (where you will spend 1/2 of your waking life) for the next 40 years.

Wes C.
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In this house, we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics! - Homer Simpson

 

[kchida]

I keep finding posts where some really experienced engineers seem to be salivating when they hear of 100k salaries, like it's some kind of sacred goal to achieve. Well, for young people in California, that's just enough to maintain a middle-class lifesyle. Nothing fancy or glamorous about it. I don't have enough fingers to count the number of pre-30's friends that I have, that make 90k and up. Here are some examples of what they do: technical sales @ oracle, attorney @ private firm, some kind of business @ Morgan Stanley, pharmacist @ RiteAid, etc. They've all been working for only 5 years(on average) and they've already hit the 6-figure mark. (I'm not making things up. This is simply reality.) I, on the other hand, would be lucky to make this kind of money (payroll) at the peak of my career. Many of them joke at how little they remember from school and ask me why I keep all my school notes and textbooks. What incentive (besides subject interest) do I have to remain in engineering? (A rhetorical question.)

Unfortunately, I agree with all of the following advice I've received above. I will pursue the career path that interests me most, but I sure fear for my childrens' future. I don't forsee an impending doom but I sure can't enjoy the same sense of well-being that some of my friends have; nor am I proud and confident when I tell people what I do for a living. Engineering is really not considered a prestigious job anymore and the salaries reflect that fact. I apologize in advance, but I feel like I'm selling myself short by following this career path. I'm anticipating a strong reply to this statement because it's true and I'm sure it makes some of you feel insecure. This is something I've noticed among engineering professionals. If a medical resident said the same thing to a cardiologist, the doctor would just laugh and think it was a joke. Why do I get a different response here? Because what I say bears some truth and it's not fun to think about it.


But, I didn't post here just to criticize. I want/hope to see positive changes made to OUR profession. To all of you established and experienced engineers:

1. Stop being complacent with your cushy jobs.

2. Maintain your professionalism to ensure the integrity of our profession. Even if it's something little like ironing your shirt or stop wearing dirty jeans to work.

3. Stop ripping on engineers in other fields and come together. They are your own kind. We need to engage in some collective bargaining. But we'll also need to back up our attitude (which leads to #4).

4. Never stop pushing the envelope. Innovate & present! Don't wait till someone (your boss) comes and asks for something.


This way, us young engineer might have something to look forard to in our careers, instead of having to forage for scraps.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Young engineer's riposte: If you just want money, then go be a pharmacist or something lawyer-y.

If you want the personal satisfaction of building and designing things that are greater, grander, and just better than anything previously accomplished by mankind - stick with the engineering.

I've always been under the impression that the typical engineer does what they want to be doing, and they make enough money to happily support themselves and their families.

Otherwise change your vocation or your location.

 

[wes616]

I became an enigneer so I can wear jeans and a tee shirt to work every day... so i could work on something no one else has seen before and because i beats roofin for a living (sorry roofers, but I spend my teenage years in roofing in vegas in the summer... it sucks).

Kchiida - your number (3) point is a little silly. Did you not just seen that engineers that work for a major airline had thier collective bargining unit cut their salaries by 40%. You say you want to innovate, but advocate becoming part of a bureucratic system that stifles innovation. I don't forge for scraps. I lived in So Cal for my entire professional career. My ex wife and I owned a home together (a 3bd-2ba in Silverlake on the res.), so it can be done on a salary.

I often joke about leaving socal for the $$ but the reality is my new wife wants to start a family (which I do as well) and wants to be close to her family. That is the reality of why I am moving to Texas. Not because SoCal is unaffordable.

Plus - did someone tell you that you'd be wealthy as an engineer. I don't remember hearing that. I have always known that engineers have a "good" job where they can live comfortably. But no one is getting wealthy working for someone else.

I have been around engineers my entire life. (My dad is a professor of engineering). The ones that are incredibly successful are rarely driven by money. Money a reward that someone else bestowes on you for your achievements. But I prefert the reward I give myself.

Wes C.
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In this house, we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics! - Homer Simpson

 

[ziggi]

I have to agree with kchida on some points. However my views might be somewhat biased as I am also a young engineer.

I agree that engies should look professional, we should also take writing and elocution (speech) classes in university. I understand that some people can't do that due to their work environment, however if you work in an office block and haven't seen the inside of a paper mill/ power plant/ factory etc in a while you should be wearing decent clothes to work.

I also agree that engineers should work together, however I DO NOT agree with this joint decision nonsense. You know what I'm talking about, the commitees who make the engineering decisions and then deny culpability b/c it was a group decision. I do feel that the leader should make the decision based on his advisor's information and if something goes awry those implicated should stand together to defend their decision. I mean what are we? Lawyers?

We should definately lose that ridiculous image of student engineers being nothing but alcoholics, it's bloody embarrasing.

I have more rants in my bag-o-rants but I seem to have misplaced it.

I realise that my point of view might change as I age and get wiser (spelt institutionalised), but someone has to keep the flame alight and try to push some change, God knows all the old engies I know only think about how to avoid responsibilty and to save their own skins. Hmmm maybe the problem is that the engie's superiors are more concerned with saving their own behinds than actually making the company run well.

 

[liberoSimulation]

I guess you have rich friends or relatives who are not working at engineering field!
Being an engineer, it gives you the power to go on in your practical life and to reaching high levels of experience, confidence, and better income compared to non-engineers.
I'm as you when I did join the work after university, thinking of better jobs or business that would give money higher than Eng. field gives.
Later after few years, I got an advice from one very experience engineer saying that" I YOU NEED TO SUCCESS IN YOUR ENG. WORK, YOU SHOULD HAVE THE INTEREST TO YOUR WORK"
By these words, I have worked keeping the interest to my eng. work and really I success and got promotions and money of course.
After sometimes, I have got an offer from other companies as they have known me from my colleagues I worked with them,
The offer I have got was two grades above I have at previous company and at least 30% increase of basic salary and with other better benefits.

Who knows?
Do your best, keep your interest to your work and in particularly to the field you have got the degree on University for, be proactive..etc
By this, you will get what you want one day

All the best
Cheers

 

[kchida]

"your number (3) point is a little silly."

wes616 - fair enough. I do recall some engineers talking about an engineering union that existed some time ago. From what I've heard it didn't last very long. As erroneous as my suggestions are, the point I'm trying to get across it that we need to start making changes to re-establish the integrity of our profession. In 20 years, when my kid tells me that he wants to study engineering in college, I don't want to tell him to consider something else. I want to make my family and kids proud of what I do for a living; and I want it to reflect in the quality of life that I provide them. Honestly wes616, I want to be an engineer, but ensuring my family's well being comes first. (again, keep in mind that my outlook extends out 30 years)

"i could work on something no one else has seen before and because i beats roofin for a living (sorry roofers, but I spend my teenage years in roofing in vegas in the summer... it sucks). "

wes616 - Oh ya! I second that one. My father is a roofer and still is at age 64. I remember him working a 1.5 month job out in Vegas when I was a kid. He would start work at 3am or something, take a break during the day and finish up a couple more things in the evening. My dad would get severe nose bleed on a daily basis because of the heat and low humidity. He offered for me to take over his small roofing business, but I kindly declined.

"My ex wife and I owned a home together (a 3bd-2ba in Silverlake on the res.), so it can be done on a salary. "

wes616 - yes, but again my concerns apply only to the new generation of engineers. You were fortunate to get in before the huge real estate boom, but we (for the most part) are priced out. It's not a matter of investing or spending responsibly; the bottom line is that us young engineers need to make more or we've gotta ship out (unless of course, I rent and forget about building a nestegg). I drive a beater and I plan to do so till the thing dissolves on the freeway. And, yes, I'm doing everything I can to make the most of my salary (i.e. 401K company-matched portion is maxed, I've invested in property 1-hour away from work outside of "the OC", making additional payments towards my principal whenever possible, got someone to rent my spare room, max contibutions to Roth IRA, I do my own landscaping/gardening, etc.) I've kissed my Social Security goodbye a long time ago. But, after crunching the numbers it's just enough to get by and definitely not comfortable. A 50% raise will allow me to breathe, but I still won't be in the position to support kids (and my parents). So, for me, remaining in engineering is somewhat of a sacrifice.

wes616 & jabberwocky - Please don't get me wrong, I don't need all the fancy stuff in life, I just want what you have...a comfortable life and to be able to enjoy my job.

 

[wes616]

Kichida, FYI, you and I are not that far apart in age. (as i'm only 31).

You were fortunate to get in before the huge real estate boom,

my ex and I bought our home during a major bubble in Real Estate. (thanks to the dot.com) in our neighborhood. It was quite expensive. At the time my salary was about 1/3 what I make now. We skimped and saved and went without for 2 years before being able to make a 7.5% downpayment.

I never had a gardener. My father never had a gardener. It actually feels good to get outside and get dirt under the fingernails. We all make sacrafices. The thing about being "middle class" is you get the choice over what those sacrafices are. You want to buy a home, don't eat out and don't by a new car (mine is a 1994, not because I can't afford a just off the lot new one). You want to eat out, fine... rent another year... you want to drive a brand new car.. well, commute further. You want to go to see a movie... don't buy the popcorn and sneak in your own drink. My father never relied on Social Security (he saw that one comming back in the 70's).

Engineering is, and will continue to be a middle class profession. Comfort is relative. The "choice" is yours.

In 20 years, when my kid tells me that he wants to study engineering in college, I don't want to tell him to consider something else.

My dad teaches engineering at a college - my mom told me to consider something else.

Wes C.
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In this house, we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics! - Homer Simpson

 

[ziggi]

wes616, my dad is an engineer too, and my mom told me the same thing your mom told you, "consider something else". Ironically enough the job she had envisioned for me when I left high school, is the one I want to be in now, working with the Canadian foreign service as a trade commissioner. I want out of engineering, so I'm moving onto business and politics.
Dontcha just hate it when they're right.

 

[wes616]

They say mothers have an intuition. Mine told me I should study finance or economics and become an investment banker. I looked at my dad, and saw a happy man, even though we didn't have much $$.

I personally don't want to take over the world... just put a big dent in it.

Wes C.
------------------------------
In this house, we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics! - Homer Simpson

 

[Heckler]

But a mothers intuition is not always right or is it? Mine told me I should've stayed in the Air Force for the retirement. I saw engineering a much more attractive option. She still hasn't forgiven me for that move....


America's most Prestigiouos Jobs

Certainly some job titles carry more cachet than others. But what makes a job prestigious? Is it fame? A six-figure salary? Power?

Firefighters, doctors and nurses should have no problem telling people what they do for a living. At least half of U.S. adults surveyed recently by the Harris Poll say these jobs carry "very great" prestige. Military officers, teachers and police officers are also well-regarded.

Some jobs, however, aren’t as revered. The lowest-rated occupations in the survey were stockbrokers, real estate brokers, accountants and journalists. Union leaders, bankers, business executives, actors and lawyers didn’t fare much better.

 

[Tobalcane]

kchida,

Just a question, why did you get into engineering? Engineering in college has never been a popular choice. Engineering is one of those fields that you want to go in or not. I’m certain that people did not go into engineering for our luxurious life style.

Just curious…




Go Mechanical Engineering
Tobalcane

 

[kchida]

Tobalcane- all throughout school (K-12), it was very apparent that my strong points were science and math. I found these subjects to be the most interesting. I absolutely dreaded literature, history, creative writing (as you can tell in my posts!), etc.

Growing up, I could always count the number of friends I hung out with on my fingers, but they were extremely close relationships. I never had a million pseudo-friends and acquaintances. So, I knew very early on that I didn't have the knack for shmoozing, small talk and socializing on a superficial level. I'm honest and I suck at lying. I was a shy kid at school, but very active and uninhibited at home.

Outside of school, I was always building and destroying things in my backyard. The earliest recollection I have of engaging in this kind of behavior is around first grade or so. Looking back, I think I was a strange kid. I would collect and hoard every little chunks of garbage that looked neat to me. Basically, I would bring home any discarded metallic or plastic part that looked like it was processed or showed some evidence of intelligent design (i.e. old keys, batteries, speakers, antennas, old tools, etc.) I would keep it all in a box (actually many boxes) and my mother quickly learned not to throw them away because I would just go nuts. I would always take things apart, for example, I asked for a R/C car one time and within a couple weeks it would be in pieces. As I grew older, I would follow through and put things back together to see if they still work. As children, I'm sure many of you in this forum were this way. Some B-day presents that I recall asking for are as follows: chemistry set, electronics lab from radio shack, R/C car, legos, more legos, Nintendo, rock tumbler, aircraft model kits, etc.

As a high school grad, I was too narrow-minded to even consider that engineering presence in the US may decline. I really had no adult direction as to what I should be to become successful. I enrolled in EE cause, quite frankly, I liked it. However, after beginning the upper-div portion of the EE program, I have to admit that I was a little burnt out in the interest department. I think this was largely due to the 10-week quarter system. It allows students just enough time to memorize how to solve particular problems, but it doesn't allow them enough time to really sit down and develop a strong intuition (well...at least for me; I'm no genius but I've sure witnessed some almost supernaturally-gifted minds; namely, my professors and post-docs. I'll could never ever gain their level of theoretical intuition!)

So, I kinda know why you are asking this question. I didn't get into it for the money. No matter what profession I get into, I'll always be an engineer.

 

[wes616]

My dad, a PhD in Eng, was a B-C student through his undergrad. He really didn't get "serious" about school until he was in Gradschool... and only because he had to be, or he's get shipped off to "Nam". Anyway, a quarter or so into it, it really "clicked" with him. It's not that they are supernaturally smark, it's that they Love what they do, and want to know EVERYTHING about it. (that bores me, as I like being a generalist). - Don't sell yourself short.

I wish the system would have people with your type of interests study a pure science instead. You'd (they'd) probablly be happier and more fulfilled. Engineering is a business (no matter what anyone says - it simply is about making things.. that make money. Science is about playing with toys, not engineering).

But to get back to your original post. I for one, am going to encourage you to try something diferent. Do it now, while you are 25 and don't have children, and the housepayment. People with eingineering degrees do well in Medical School. Sothern California has many good ones (or go somewhere else, and try it out for a while). Pharmacy school is exciting as well. Or sign onto law school and become a patent attorney (Chapman in OC has a great program as well as Southwestern & USC & Loyola in LA). Or what about an MBA. All great $$!

Or you could get a loan for the grad school money and franchise a Baja Fresh or a McDonalds. My wife's parents own resturants, and they are sitting pretty ($$).

Or try your hand a the real estate game. There is still zillions to be made in sothern california.

Try something different. Do it today! You only live one. Follow your heart. Obviously it's leading you in this direction (or at least away from enigneering).

Wes C.
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In this house, we OBEY the laws of thermodynamics! - Homer Simpson

 

[GeoSmith]

If money is really really important for you, why don't you study for business? You can work at wall-street and have a good living standard, be a sale guy. In the past, the belief of american is to work for the interest, money is not the most important. Now, the world is changing, including America, everyone wants to earn 'quick' money in the short period of time, investment in the house and bond, selling the ideas, dot com bloom. I do think this is not good for the future of US.