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EOR for several open floor plan remodels, but developer wanted smaller beams so he could recess them 2

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StrucPatholgst

Structural
Jan 23, 2013
158
I have been the EOR for a whole slew of remodels for a resi developer in our state. In 20 years I've never had a complaint about my beam sizes until this guy. He wants to recess every beam he installs. Sometimes, you just can't do that. Like for 24 foot spans with 2x10 floor joists supporting a second floor, an attic, and rafter pony walls. (How do you go from a 14" 3x flitch/LVL beam to a single 5.5x9.25 LVL.)

So what does this guy do? My drawings and calcs have already been submitted and permits issued, and the developer gets an 80 year old architect to write letters to the various AHJ's making changes to the beam sizes. On top of that, he never told me about any of these changes. I only found out by chance from one of his project managers.

I'm pretty sure I'm covered, since my drawings and calculations are already on file with the various AHJ's. It just infuriates me. This project I'm doing this week will be my last with this guy. Not worth the hassle or the future cracked ceiling drywall complaints.
 
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by recess, do you mean 'flush framed' where the joists are about an inch proud of the beams to accommodate shrinkage? Only way I think you can achieve that reduction is to introduce steel beams.

Make sure you are no longer EOR...


Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik
 
Yeah, you'll be covered but only after you prove that what's installed isn't what you spec'd...and that could be costly.

Talk to your attorney and/or insurance carrier first, but I think I'd send a formal letter to the architect requesting proof that the beams he specified meet or exceed the performance level to which you designed the beams. If he is incapable of doing so, tell him you'll be contacting the licensing board and the Authorities Having Jurisdiction over the various projects and informing them that the architect has taken over all responsibilities as Designer of Record for these structures. Give him a time frame, since he likely won't respond, and at the end of that time send your letters. Be sure to inform the owners of the buildings of the situation as well so they're aware of what happened and that you are no longer involved. Then if anyone does try to sue you, you have a stack of papers to show the judge and (hopefully) get your name taken off of the suit quickly.
 
I don't think you have to prove it. I would write the the owner and the AHJ and stipulate that changes have been made to a project bearing your seal and that you are no longer the EOR. I'd leave it at that. I don't think it's necessary to challenge the professonal credentials of the architect or to inform your insurance carrier; you can chat with your lawyer. In some areas, if you contact your insurance carrier, they immediately open a file and this has an impact on your premiums.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik
 
dik - if he gets sued for damages because a building for which he was the EOR does not perform, then he won't be able to get the judge to strike his name from the suit unless he can prove it wasn't his design. So I think we agree - sending letters now will make it clear and significantly reduce the chances of getting sued in the first place and if he does, it'll be easier to get out of it at the lowest possible cost. The is 'murica...we can sue just about anyone for just about anything - and we do!

I'm not suggesting the credentials of the architect be challenged - just giving him the opportunity to take full responsibility for what he did. If the OP is suggesting the architect has certified a 3 ply 9.25" LVL where a 3 ply 14" with steel flitch plates was needed, then that architect is providing inadequate structural designs. There's no reasonable level of 'fat' in the OP's design that could be reduced to a puny little 9.25" LVL. There needs to be a reckoning for that. In fact, if the OP is aware of unprofessional and unsafe conduct on the part of a RDP, he may be obligated by state law to report it or be in violation of the regs himself - I'm not licensed in NJ and I'm not sure what their regulations say.

I'd say it depends on how/where you get your insurance. My broker goes out of their way to help their clients, and have a "pre-claim" department that handles questions related to procedures, vulnerabilities, etc., and a 'slush fund' of cash to get issues resolved before a file is started with the carrier. Because once it gets there, nobody wins. My price goes up, I shop elsewhere, and the lost revenue costs more than helping me. I agree, though - not everyone has access to that and you have to be careful.
 
Unless it's like the Florida condo... showing that the members are not as spec'd is pretty easy. Other than the 'scattergun' approach to lawsuits, there is no reason for him to be sued as long as he hasn't made overtures about it being unsafe. I wouldn't even refer to the architect's design, only that the work is not as shown on his documents.

If there is no 'file charge' in your juridiction for an inquiry and there is no increase in premiums, then you may want to contact your broker... do so, with caution. If you go 'elsewhere' because of the increase, the sticker that says a file was opened, may follow you around and affect premiums.

You also may want to check with your professional association, without specifics about removing the EOR...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik
 
This keeps getting better. So last year he purchased a house from a flipper, and finished the basement and added a bathroom. The basement and bathroom drawings were mine. He then asked me late last year (after the project was completed and the property was on the market) to check the flush beam spans in 3 locations (the ones that the prior flipper had installed) for the AHJ and a potential buyer he had under contract. I had access to the beams and fasteners, plus the receipts from the original contractor on what he installed, so for me this was a no-brainer. I went in, measured, confirmed what was there, and ran the calculations. All three beams were way undersized and sagging, and I said so in my report. I also provided calculations and recommendations for replacements. I just learned that he disregarded my report (which I suppose was his right), and got the retired architect to supply a letter to say everything was ok.
 
Best to walk away from it, and not be the EOR since the work wasn't completed in accordance with your docs...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik
 
I believe you have an obligation to report this "architect" to your state board. You know the beams were undersized which would be a life safety issue wouldn't it?
 
If it was a life safety issue, I'd deal with it, but the AHJ and state board would be my last options in that order.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik
 
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