Epoxy Phenolic paint system under thermal insulation

[babouic]

Dear all,

I am looking for information about paint system applied under thermal insulation for subsea structures (FLET, ILT...)

With previous investigations 2 paint systems seems to match regarding the technical constraints
- 2 coats Sigmatherm 230 DFT 150µm for each coat
- 2 coats Thermaline 400 DFT 150µm for each coat

But I can’t find any track records for these paint system in previous project and I need to justify they are field proven paint systems.
Did you use these paints systems in previous project or did you meet these products for subsea structures?

I am not stick with PPG or Carboline, main constraints are :
- 2 coats 150 microns each
- phenolic epoxy
- Under thermal insulation with Temp up to 120°C
- Subsea structures

If you have any paint systems field proven which match these points....

Regards

Marc

 

[TomDOT]

Call up the coating manufacturer, get their technical department. Tell them that you need case studies/field studies. They should be able to provide this information.

Alternately, if you have a decent sales rep - tell them what you need, and they will go through the tech department/lab and get you case studies.

 

[SJones]

Sigma will readily supply you with numerous qualification test reports for Phenguard 930/945 covering your stated conditions. It is Cameron's standard subsea coating for their equipment up to 120 deg C.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[babouic]

@TomDOT this is the next step, Thx

@SJones I know for Phenguard but the main thing is that phenguard system is a 3 coats 930/935/940 100microns each. I also know for the 2 coats phenguard but this paint system is not qualified by Sigma and they don't guarantee this use and I am looking for total DFT of 300microns.
Never heard about phenguard 945, can't find any information about this product.

 

[SJones]

Sorry, meant 935. Why are you focusing on a couple of two coat systems developed to go under topsides lagging type insulation? Don't confuse subsea insulation with topsides 'lagging'. Bite the bullet and go three coats of qualified subsea coating like Cameron do!

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[babouic]

@SJones
You are right sigmatherm and Thermaline are used for topside under insulation. Made mistakes when investigating thses paint systems.

ofc if no 2 coats paint systems could fit whith my constraints I will go for a 3 coats system like phenguard 930/935/940. But our scope of work is very important and if we could save time and money with 2 coats instead of 3, we will go for a 2 coats paint system.

After new investigation for SUBSEA this time and not topside , I found plasite 7159 from carboline which perfectly match with my constraints. What do you think about this paint product.
I also try to investigate Belzona 1522 but I can't really find enough information about this product.

Regards
Marc

 

[TomDOT]

Belzona guys are VERY proud of their products.

 

[babouic]

@TomDOT
And is the pride is justified that is my question

 

[TomDOT]

babouic - excellent question. The testing I did on Belzona products was at a former employer, for various clients. Large companies with expensive infrastructure will often run (or pay to run) their own comparative testing on various competing products. Paying the costs for an evaluation in advance is a lot cheaper than ending up with a product which performs for 10 years, when you could have had a product which performs for 25 years.

Generally these companies are unwilling to share the results with competitors.

 

[babouic]

Yes ofc I'm not asking for complete answer about which one is the "best".

About Belzona 1522 something incredible is that i can't find any PDS for this product. Can't find information about NDFT... Only a poor flyer.

I am investigating Plasite 7159 and Belzona 1522. i need to contact Carboline and Belzona to know if these products are qualified according to NORSOK M-501 and if they have any track records.

cheers
Marc

 

[TomDOT]

You may have to push a bit, but IME any of these manufacturers should be able to supply you with the actual M-501 test reports for their products (if they had the testing done.)

 

[babouic]

After further investigation and contact with Belzona, back to initial point.

I phone Belzona, first they were not aware of the existence of Belzona 1522, finally the answered me that this product was not fabricated anymore since 15years...
Plasite 7159 is not phenolic epoxy and is not used under thermal insulation.

I think the only paint systems which suit is 3 coats Phenguard. I am not very happy to have only one paint manufacturer available.

 

[SJones]

Develop the performance requirements specification and invite coating manufacturers to meet it. That way you will not be limited, and if you are, it's because it was for the best coating system.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[TomDOT]

SJones - That's my preferred approach. Unfortunately, unless the testing has already been performed it puts you into a long timeline.

 

[SJones]

But that's the point: the major manufacturers will have test results off the shelf, and if they haven't, it's hard luck. However, like needs to be compared with like, so the specification still needs to be developed.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

[bernoullies123]

Have applied and been sitting under 1200 m of water of a 2 coat Phenguard 930/940 system under thermal insulation with a 100-150 DFT for each coat. This system is specified for subsea use by one of the major oil/gas producer / supplier conglomerates.

 

[babouic]

@bernouillies123

I know for the 2 coat phenguard accepted by some companies, unfortunetly this time it's a company which doesn't accept this paint system.
PPG only pre-qualified, according to system 7 of Norsok, the 3 coats system and not the 2 coats. Even if the 2 coats paint system has already been used by major companies we know that this time it won't be accepted.

Hempel answer with a 2 coats system : 2x250µm Hempadur 35900 which is pre-qualified for system 7c NORSOK M-501 (Rev 6).

 

[babouic]

Dearl all,

Regarding my previous investigation, I will go for Phenguard from PPG.
One question regarding Contratherm C25 (Advanced Insulation Plc) and Novolastic (FMC).

I heard about that these companies specified different number of coats(phenguard) under their insulation system.
AIPLC asks for 3 coats of phenguard 100µm each under C25,
whereas FMC aks for 2 coats of phenguard 175µm each.

Do you confirm these assumption or can we apply 2 coats or 3 coats, no matter which insulation system is applied ?
I know that for PPG only the 3 coats system is pre-qualified and accepted as an anti-corrosion system, does FMC or AIPLC will endorsed the guarantee if the specifically ask for 2 coats ?

best regards
Marc

 

[TomDOT]

Marc - unless you have a paint chemist on staff, always follow the manufacturer's instructions for number of coats and thickness. Do not "mix and match" across different manufacturers. Too thick, and you are likely to get sag or solvent entrapment (if it has solvents.) How thick is "too thick" is a multifaceted question - depends on viscosity, cure time, BP of the solvents, affinity of the solvents for the coating, et cetera.

 

[babouic]

Ok , so no matter what FMC or AIPLC ask for, if it's not in line with PDS of phenguard system, I should go through clarification with PPG to ask if deviation is allowed with PDS information.

But regarding the guarantee, If FMC has qualified the sytem 2coats + Novolastic but PPG as qualified the 3 coats phenguard, FMC will take the responsabilities of possible failure or should I stay in line with PPG requirements to be covered ?
T
he truth is that these subjects are for Total, They won't accept any deviation from paint manufacturer requirements unless the guarantee is fully endorsed by someonelse...Exxon, Chevron and many other major Companies accepted 2 coats but unfortunatly Total can somtimes be narrow-minded