Ethical Obligation to inform 1

[DTGT2002]

I work in the fairly specialized field of concrete formwork and shoring.

With the down turn of the economy, a number of projects in my working area have stalled, stopped, had their initial contracts terminated and have come up for subsequent rebid.

On one such project, the structure was 75% complete at the time of shutdown and shoring and formwork were left installed, waiting for concrete placement.

My company was not initially involved with this project, but we wre asked to come out and complete a bid for continuing the work.

In the process of reviewing the in place work, the details used to install the temporary work was shared with us and upon review, I found the system to be installed in the wrong principle direction and the materials used to be of a lower grade than that specified in the stamped details.

While the pricing of my company included the cost of having me redesign the in place system to carry the applied loads through supplemental shoring, a number of our competitors do not maintain in house engineering and use the same consultant for design that originally provided the shoring details which are not installed correctly.

Regardless, I feel some sense of obligation to notify the EOR of the temporary works of the issue or notify the EOR of the structure.

Am I off base or does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations to share?

I do appreciate any advice you may offer.

Daniel

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Let's say for a moment that you were not bidding on the project, but learned of the improper design through other means (lunch break with a colleague, grapevine, what have you). Do you now feel you should tell someone? Your answer here should be 'yes'... the fact that it affects your own bid is secondary, even if true.


Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[dik]

I would advise the other consultant of the incorrect installation.

Why was his work terminated?

Dik

 

[IRstuff]

While this information clearly puts your company at a tactical advantage, and it's a temporary setup, there appears to be a potential question of public and worker safety.

If this is correct, then you would seem to be legally obligated as a PE to raise this issue with the EOR.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[DTGT2002]

I sent over an email a little while ago.

He works as a consultant for most of the other operations in town and we have even considered using him for things I felt to be beyond our scope.

I just hope he doesn't take it as an attack.

From his position, I would think he has a limited ability for oversight and such.

I would certainly rather cry wolf than have someone hurt. Any shoring problem reflects poorly upon the industry and indifference on the part of engineers is shameful.

Thanks to all for telling me what I already knew.

Daniel

 

[rday]

Regardless of how the other consultant takes youe e-mail you made the right decission.

It wasn't that long ago that we had a shoring collapse here in Denver on a buidling under construction. Thankfully no one hurt on that one.

 

[Ron]

I think you were right in contacting the other consultant before going to the EOR. Is it possible that the consultant had valid reasons and you have, if effect, a difference of opinion? That should be validated before going further.

 

[DTGT2002]

I did not speak to him as to his means and methods, only the fact that the shoring installed is not in place per his drawings, the materials specified are not in place AND the firm who originally contracted him to do the design is no longer on the project, but the GC is passing out his design to interested bidders.

The last one stings entirely differently than the first two. Though it assumes non ethical behavior to our competition (who do not employ a in house P.E. for design work), I do believe those bidding against us will likely plan to use the previously submitted shoring details as their own, regardless of their validity and without regard to the fact the shoring currently installed is installed incorrectly (short of the engineer I contacted following up, which I believe he will).

As to the actual detailing of the project, I think my typical designs are more efficient, but I can't really fault what he has on paper. The fact that the installation is 90 degrees out from what is specified was my big issue.

So should I do anything further?

 

[IRstuff]

In aerospace, we would "ghost" the competition by pointing how thorough we were in actually inspecting the site and verifying the drawings/installation, blah, blah, blah..., and look what we found. If we're really nasty, we might wonder how the previous EOR failed to discover the problem when he was working the project previously, but you can "nice" up the discussion by stating that you would never let something like that happen on your watch. And that your ability to have engineers on staff is what provides all these benefits, blah, blah, etc.

TTFN

FAQ731-376