Ethics training 1

[jmw]

I'm afraid I suspect the people who cloak their actions either with religion or patriotism.
There can be few people more odious that Tony Blair who stopped short of actually claiming "God told him to do it" but used his religious beliefs as an excuse for some pretty inexcusable behaviour.... (you can substitute you favourite politicians name here).
Yes, literally there can be a few people more odious, but he sets a tough standard.
I'm also suspicious of those who have an even greater belief that there is no God.
At either extreme we have people whose very "in your face" protestations of what they say they belief makes me highly suspicious.
So I agree with MikeTheEngineer's suspicions about those who self proclaim their honesty and integrity.... like all those people who try to tell me how legal it is for them to be offering me 20% for helping them dispose of $30million dollars stranded in their (Nigerian) bank.
I want to know what it is they're trying to put over on me.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[lacajun]

jmw, I am Christian and patriotic but very flawed. I try to do the right thing but I do goof up often.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[patprimmer]

I am known to be an atheist and not particularly patriotic, but I have earned a very high level of trust from many people, and I believe this is due to what I have done more so than what I have said.

I never trust those loudly proclaiming to be Christian, especially the newer more evangelic breeds so common in the USA

Regards
Pat
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[lacajun]

patprimmer, words and actions are important so I pay attention to both. I apply Galatians 5: 19 ff to everyone including moi. When my actions and words don't align with scripture, I know I am afoul somehow, somewhere.

I know people inside and outside the church that I don't trust because of their words and actions. I've watched people morph from being strictly one thing to something completely different to "fit in." I don't believe in fitting in.

Because of experience, I am particularly suspicious of people that attack others, cause strife, are contentious, prone to outbursts of anger, are jealous, have exclusive cliques, carouse, and are drunkards or drug addicts.

Most of the people I've had many of those problems with are atheists or don't attend church regularly.

All of this reminds me of a friend. So I'll also recommend "Heft on Wheels" by Mike Magnuson. Mike had a tough journey from a life of "relative waste" to a life with "purpose and definition." Mike and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I took him in stride but he cannot tolerate me. His journey is worth a read.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[jmw]

Note, I was referring to extremes, not to normal everyday folk. The sort of people who have power and cloak their use of power in some such justifying belief.
Of course people are guided by their beliefs, that is the main function of religions and civil laws, a recognition that we are not naturally inclined to do what we know we need to if we are to have any harmony. For many, a belief in God is an optional add on to religion.


JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Most of the people I've had many of those problems with are atheists or don't attend church regularly.

And a goodly number of those people I've had problems with were Christians who were <cough> religious about attending church every week, so I'd say the distribution is pretty fair across the board.

Don't tell me you're a good Christian when you're a long-time girlfriend but you're also getting busy with the guy across town (and I'm the one going to hell?!). Don't tell me you're a good Christian when I just watched you take money from the petty cash drawer so you could grab a quick nip at the local bar after work. Don't tell me you're a good Christian when I know you're working hard to stab a coworker in the back because he makes your life more difficult. And so on, and so on...

There are jerks everywhere, and I'm not real fond of people who proclaim their saintliness merely because of their piety. Put up or shut up, but don't tell me you're a saint when you can tangle with the best of sinners. ;-)

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[TheTick]

I am a Christian, but no longer of the McVangelical variety. I have learned to be wary of any business that puts the "little fish" on its signs and literature.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I think I am Christian - but I too RUN from the little "fishies". NEVER had a good experience......

 

[lacajun]

I've never been evangelical. I study the Bible and attend church but realize I am very insignificant in all pictures, big and small.

I had an agnostic, early in my career, warn me about getting fired for stealing from the company. Later that day, I saw the individual exit the plant with a bag from the warehouse, with the warehouse tag attached. It was another lesson in Freudian Projection, which ended my confusion about him bringing the whole topic up. I'm a lot of things but I am not a thief.

I know Christians who are pretty undesirable people. I can include relatives in that group. What people tend to forget is that the only difference between a Christian and a non-Christian is Christ. We are still people with an old sin nature. Mine can go on a rampage, which I regret, but that isn't a normal way of life for me.

I had a friend in church steal $500 from me. His problems were obvious but I had no reason to distrust him. I never learned why he did it and he never repaid the money. I learned to not trust him so much. I talked to a couple of deacons in the church but nothing ever came of it. My friend couldn't repay it and that was that.

People say a lot of things never meaning a word for a variety of reasons. But, I will still take people at their word until they prove I shouldn't. And, I am not as trusting as I used to be with a lot of things in my life. But, I still help others in need.

100% accuracy on right and wrong is hard to achieve. I like reminders on proper conduct because I need them.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[bridgebuster]

Here’s something strange that happened to me about three years ago; I never told anyone about it. I went out at lunchtime to have a smoke and a guy comes up to me with a hard luck story. He needed $35.00; he said he’d pay me back tomorrow (yeah sure). I wanted to tell him that his story was BS because it was completely illogical. Nevertheless I gave him the money; don’t ask me why. Here’s where it gets strange: Within two weeks $350 came my way. Even though I had a windfall I don’t help anyone with the expectation of receiving a reward; it doesn’t work that way.

Regarding the stolen $500, it’s not wrong to mistrust someone. We’re expected to exercise prudence, along with fortitude, temperance and justice.

 

[TheTick]

To words you never hear from a trustworthy person: "Trust me."

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Roger that!!

 

[lacajun]

I've used "trust me" on rare occasions.

Just completed my ethics exam for the State of Louisiana to renew my license. They've changed things. I had to submit a 33 question exam and will need to score at least 90% to pass. Reading through the documentation and answering some of the questions made me reflect on the past year's events. Helped me realize, again, I did the right thing as painful as it has been.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[patprimmer]

100% accuracy on right and wrong is hard to achieve.

Is more than hard to achieve, but is often impossible to even know, hence the term, moral dilemma.

An example.

I know an end user is asking at least two people to do development work for free and invest in plant and equipment with a promise that they will get the production job which involves a truckload of work on short notice, hence the capital investment requirement.

Both are working hard and about to spend a significant proportion of their net worth. I am providing technical support and samples of materials to both.

I expect that the one who does not get the contract will end up bankrupt. What to do.

All I could do was suggest to each that there where 400 moulders in Sydney and you can never be sure there are not others quoting the same work, so where they absolutely sure they should invest before they get an iron clad contract. When asked why? do you know something, I replied, well if I did it would be confidential, but the reason I am saying this is that I know how far you are extending yourself on a handshake and years of experience has taught me that is a risky practice.

Unfortunately, one of them is now bankrupt and closed down with plant auctioned off pretty much as a direct result of this.

It turns out they where both dealing with different people at the end user and there was a power struggle going on there and the guy who won the power struggle chose the supplier. He tried to throw the losing supplier a few crumbs because he knew he had invested on a promise from his colleague, but it was not enough for the losing supplier to stay viable.

Regards
Pat
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