Excel is evil 19

[novembertango88]

Hello everyone

I just watched an interesting talk on youtube by Colin Caprani who's a lecturer in structural engineering.
He discusses the problems with spreadsheets from the perspective of an academic but a lot of this translates to practising engineers too.

I find checking spreadsheets tedious at best and dangerous at worst.

Does anybody use any tools to make the production and checking process better?

Here's a link to the lecture on youtube;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NuTlczV72Q

It's only 20mins long.

Thanks

 

[yakpol]

The last phrase in the video is my favorite: Excel tolerates all kinds of errors, in fact, it actively generates them.
Makes you think twice before you embark on a big spreadsheet.

https://blogs.oracle.com/smb/10-of-the-costliest-spreadsheet-boo-boos-in-history

Yakpol

 

[IDS]

Checked out the lambda functions.

Simply put, LAMBDA allows you to define your own custom functions using Excel’s formula language. Excel already allows you to define custom functions, but only by writing them in an entirely different language such as JavaScript.

The Lambda functions look OK, but if only they had a built in programming language that you could access from within the program, with quick and easy de-bugging and a ton of available resources, rather than having to jump through hoops to connect to JavaScript. Oh, but wait a minute ...

Also you can already do pretty much what the lambda function does, for example with:

https://newtonexcelbach.com/2014/06/28/evaluating-text-update/

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services

http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

 

[IDS]

The last phrase in the video is my favorite: Excel tolerates all kinds of errors, in fact, it actively generates them.
Makes you think twice before you embark on a big spreadsheet.

I don't have a problem with people pointing out the potential problems with using Excel (or with using any other software product), but to suggest that you should therefore just not use Excel for scientific or engineering applications is to my mind just ridiculous.

As for the Oracle link, to suggest that the problems they listed would be fixed by switching from Excel to an Oracle product is rather like suggesting you can make icebergs safer by removing the tip of the iceberg. If anything, it makes it more dangerous, because the real problems become harder to see.



Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services

http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

 

[IRstuff]

Matt Parker's take on Excel errors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb2zkxHDfUE

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[IDS]

I'll watch the video properly later, but I liked this comment:

"As in woodworking, more powerful tools allow you to make greater mistakes in less time."

Doug Jenkins
Interactive Design Services

http://newtonexcelbach.wordpress.com/

 

[dold]

Biggest issue we have is: two or three power users in the office who work strictly in VBA. They are now too important/too busy to document (much less troubleshoot and provide tech support/legacy support for) everything, but still love to code, and so they still generate stuff. These 'spreadsheets' (the only thing 'spreadsheet' about them is the final form you look at - everything is VBA...everything...) get dumped on the server and any ol EIT can pick it up and wreak havoc with it.
I had to teach myself VBA just so I could trust my own work while using these workbooks, which is hardly optional.

[tt]'user must edit the following code[/tt]

(^said every line of code that never gets edited...)

 

[drawoh]

dold,

Are you willing to endanger the public, and your engineers' license, running software that is undocumented, and/or spaghetti?

The International Obfuscated C Code Contest

I have the same problems with CAD[ ]modelling. Analysis and design tools are not idiot resistant, and they should not be used by idiots.

--
JHG

 

[rscassar]

Every program has risks, spreadsheets or scripts or reputable engineering software with large revenues. Just because software license is +$10k doesn't mean it is error free.

The risk is are engineers who don't know the engineering principles.

 

[IRstuff]

There are often pathological model constructs that can clobber a simulation program; SPICE, for electrical circuits, used to have all sorts of issues with oscillators and oscillation in the solution.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[dold]

drawoh,

No, i'm not willing to do that. I don't think I ever suggested that I was. That's why I check the results against my experience and study the programs that I use, to the extent that I can, or just don't use them.

+1 rscassar. Just go read any structural package changelog. Or any panicked email from a powerhouse software developer.

 

[ATSE]

If Excel is evil, then FEA software packages are super evil. But that is nonsense.
You can't solve a 1000x1000 matrix in Mathcad.
And to be productive, you cannot expect the software to show every single calculation.
If I had only one software package to use for all of engineering, it would be Excel. Shortcomings included.

 

[EJ_H]

Excel's downsides are very real, but spreadsheets do have benefits over other programs (density of display, natural tabular data storage/generation, easy-to-learn language, affordability, and a lot more.

For those of you that like spreadsheets and tools like Mathcad, you could check out Blockpad. It's sort of like a mix between them.

 

[Turn_of_the_Screw]

The firm I once worked for used a balance between Mathcad and Excel. Certain types of calculations worked better in one or the other. The bonus with Mathcad is, if it is well-formatted, that you can staple it to the back of a report, rather than a page of hand calcs.

 

[IFRs]

I'm currently looking at Blockpad as a supplement or possible replacement for Mathcad and Excel. If any of you have experience or know someone who has used it, please let me know!!!

 

[IRstuff]

thread724-477485

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

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