Faking a degree 3

[ctopher]

I was thinking over the weekend about how common are engineers faking their degrees.
I worked with a Mech. Engineer for a while that didn't seem to me he went to college at all. He was a hot-head, argued with everyone that he is right, and all of his designs failed.
Finally, a new engineering manager was hired and he also thought some fishy. He asked me my thoughts, I told him I don't think he has a degree.
Turns out I was right. He lied about it and his background was not thoroughly checked when hired.
He was fired soon after.
Has anyone here experienced engineers (or any other profession) that have faked (lied) about have their college degree? I'm curious how common this is.


Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 2.0
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)

 

[TheTick]

Every once in a while I see a story about this. Not just engineers, but also doctors and dentists and lawyers.

These stories go along the line of "he was so good you could never tell". Obviously not the case here.

 

[drawoh]

ctopher,

I worked with a guy who claimed to have a graduate degree in engineering, and who could not solve a simple geometry problem involving Pythagorus. Eventually, he was laid off.

No one ever challenged his credentials, so, strictly speaking, I have no idea what the problem was. Perhaps Pythagorus was too new fangled and high tech for him.

JHG

 

[IRstuff]

I would guess it's in the less than 1 out of 100 range. You need to be good enough to pull it off, but still not have a degree.

There was recently an MIT dean of admissions that had to resign because of a faked resume:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2007-04-26-mit-admissions-dean-out_N.htm

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[ctopher]

Yes, I remember that story. That is a tough one. She was very good at what she did, but was fired because she lied on her resume. I feel that should have worked something out with her.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 2.0
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)

 

[KENAT]

Not a degree specifically but A guy at my last place had lied about his previous experience. Claimed he was the head of a design department, led all their design introduced a new CAD system etc. Turned out he'd been a paper pusher with approximately 0 design/engineering experience beyond his apprenticeship. Everytime he got found out he moved on. Took them several years to get rid of him and that was only 'cause he quite to take a 6 month trip to Australia or something.

When he came back he tried to get re-hired, they said no!

I always take my degree cert with me to interviews and have never been asked to see it. My first real interview I even asked if they wanted to see it, he said yeah but I could tell he couldn't care less!

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[ctopher]

My current job they wanted proof of everything, including High School information. I never lied about anything. I only tell them what they ask. Never give more info than what they ask for, but don't lie about anything.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 2.0
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)

 

[MintJulep]

Note the dates in the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_DeLibero

http://www.mvtransit.com/home/assets/pdfs/bios/shirleydelibero.pdf

 

[ivymike]

There was a contract guy who tried to get hired on direct, and lied about having a degree. He had a big mouth, so he told a lot of us about it in the process and word spread to the nearby managers, but it's a big organization and working-level managers only interfere in the HR process at the risk of their own necks, so mostly people watched from the sidelines (and besides, he was getting hired into a different part of the org - someone else's problem). Anyway, his saga unfolded week by week... at first he was able to bluff his way along by telling HR that he had to wait for his school to send him a transcript before he could provide it, then he told us he was going to order a degree online, then he said he was going to "finish his degree" at an online university... then he got hired as a six-sigma black-belt and he still holds that job two years later.

This guy complained for 10 minutes and threatened to call a quality manager when he saw me check the diameter of a 5/8" bolt at my desk with a mechanical calipers, because I couldn't provide him with documentation of when it had last been calibrated.

 

[Tobin1]

This is nothing new. Many years ago (in the days of pencil drawing) the company I was working for hired a new draftsman. He claimed he had experience in structural steel detailing. He tried very hard to use existing examples to create a new drawing but it became obvious he really had no experience. He was gone before the week was over. I am not degreed and never tried to fake it. Some of my employers have given me titles that made it look like I was. I was always uncomfortable with that. Through the years I have worked with many good engineers. I can think of only one that I'm sure was faking it.

Tobin Sparks

http://www.nov.com

 

[MiketheEngineer]

I too have never lied on my resume --- but funny thing - In almost 30 years - NO ONE has EVER asked to see my engineering license although I carry my pocket copy at all times. Strange??

 

[Tobin1]

Yeah - That's one thing I don't need a degree for. I can tell who the fakes are. I just let'em go and watch'em crash and burn.

Tobin Sparks

http://www.nov.com

 

[TheTick]

I've had to bring my diploma in twice (I can hardly remember where I keep it). One place did call the alma mater to verify. Funny thing is, even after checking my college, they wanted to verify my high school!

 

[BJC]

I once worked for a very large construction company. One of the design engineers was fired. When the whole story got out it turned out he was asked if he had a degree. He said yes, and was asked to bring it in. He did,it was his fathers. His story was he had a degree, he inherited it.

On of the best engineers that ever worked for me didn't have a degree. He told the company he did.
He comfessed to me once. He said he was traveling and stopped overnight in a town in Pennsylvania. That night there was a big fire. He asked the next day what the fire was. The people at the restaurant told him the Administration building at the local university burned down.
The company would call the university and ask if he had a degree from the university. Their reply was "if he graduated before 196x we don't have a record, we lost our records in a fire."

 

[ctopher]

"His story was he had a degree, he inherited it".
That's a new one. Funny.

Chris
SolidWorks/PDMWorks 08 2.0
AutoCAD 06/08
ctopher's home (updated 10-07-07)

 

[Gymmeh]

I am always confused why they fire people that are doing amazing job, I don’t agree with lying but its also bad screening on the HR department, you don’t hear of them getting fired for hiring the wrong person?

From my view both people screwed up and if the person is doing a good job, it looks bad for both if they can’t workout a deal.

As for the people that are not good at work... and lie, it’s unfortunate the office politics keeps them around.

 

[jistre]

Well, the question is one of integrity and trust, not ability. If he lied about things to get the job, what else is that guy lying about, and who's he lying to? I am positive that there are guys that are competent and lie on resumes just to get a foot in the door so they can then let their performance speak for itself. However, there are those who are incompetent and lie to cover that up. Since the potential downside of hiring a liar can be so bad, I don't believe it can be tolerated, no matter how good the guy actually is after he's hired.

 

[Heckler]

I've never had to take my degree cert into an interview. Actually, I've only had the cert out of its package twice in 13 years. The questions they have asked and the pre-employment background checks find out all they need to know. Besides degree certs can be counterfeited. Although, when my current job did a background check....it came up I had a MSME......

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
o
_`\(,_
(_)/ (_)

This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.

 

[SylvestreW]

Once had a person apply for an admin position. She was recommended by someone already working. Long story short, the candidate felt guilty because she lied about her diploma (she apparently started but never finished school) and disclosed this to the person who recommended her.
The employee explained the situation to HR but damage was done - candidate wasn't hired.
And worse yet, the job didn't require any diploma etc, and the person they did eventually hire didn't have anything other than highschool.

At my present company we don't check for degrees but we do check designations. It's actually easier to do that.

As for giving ppl a 2nd chance if caught, I say no way. There's zero excuse for lying, and there are far too many honest people who worked hard that a scammer should be given any breaks.

-
Syl.

 

[Helicopterjunky]

Quote..... "There was a contract guy who tried to get hired on direct, and lied about having a degree. He had a big mouth, so he told a lot of us about it in the process and word spread to the nearby managers, but it's a big organization and working-level managers only interfere in the HR process at the risk of their own necks, so mostly people watched from the sidelines (and besides, he was getting hired into a different part of the org - someone else's problem). Anyway, his saga unfolded week by week... at first he was able to bluff his way along by telling HR that he had to wait for his school to send him a transcript before he could provide it, then he told us he was going to order a degree online, then he said he was going to "finish his degree" at an online university... then he got hired as a six-sigma black-belt and he still holds that job two years later."

This guy complained for 10 minutes and threatened to call a quality manager when he saw me check the diameter of a 5/8" bolt at my desk with a mechanical calipers, because I couldn't provide him with documentation of when it had last been calibrated.


Now that is just funny anywhere!! Much of the Black Belt Jazz is just that. Another gimick quality program. This guy you describe will probably be Sr. Vice President in a few years.