Fire shuts down I10 in LA 7

[spsalso]

A fire under the freeway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R53bBD9TbxQ

A visual visit to that area using Google Maps shows an enormous amount of flammables placed under the freeway, including wood, tires, and vehicles. It's been my impression that California DOT did not allow that sort of thing, for reasons that might currently appear obvious.

I wonder why this usage was allowed.

I am reminded of that other recent fire, where a freeway on the east coast was taken out:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=507741

CADOT was kinda put on notice that fires underneath a freeway were, uh, a problem.



spsalso

 

[3DDave]

Then the state would have to find storage space for the junk. Civil asset forfeiture is generally used to extort valuables from innocent people. Even if the state agency knew about the pallets, they aren't easy to convert to cash.

 

[spsalso]

Quite true.

But if the state had been serious about removing the material, this route would have worked*.

I agree with your "extortion" comment (although sometimes they accidentally pick a guilty one). This time it could have been a "force for good".

The pallets don't have to be converted to cash. They have to be removed. They can be stored in some MUCH safer place, and the storage fee could likely be billed to the, uh, perp.


spsalso

*If for no other reason, because the state has unlimited legal resources. And a peasant doesn't.

 

[azcats]

Xi Jinping wasn't slated to visit beneath that freeway so Gavin didn't have the area spruced up for company.

 

[spsalso]

He could always have hung some curtains in front of it.


spsalso

 

[TugboatEng]

There was quite a large fire at a homeless camp under highway 880 today. The smoke did drift over to SF.

 

[cranky108]

Makes one wonder if this was not an effort to remove the homeless by fire?
Sort of eco movement thing. A response to a government that is not doing it's job.

Note, I have not been in CA in several years, so I would not know first hand.

 

[spsalso]

An interesting video featuring comments by the guy who owned one of the businesses located at the site:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCfbchOSpMI

Also, I would have thought the fire department would have come through on occasion to do a fire inspection.


Sounds like Caltrans and the fire department knew, or should have known, that there were pallets stacked there. By allowing the pallets to remain there, they both then were also responsible, in some way, for the fire.


spsalso

 

[FacEngrPE]

Caltrans Continues Progress on Fire Cleanup and Repair on I-10 Published: Nov 16, 2023 Link
"Caltrans and contractors working in close collaboration to repair the damage and reopen I-10 in three to five weeks."

Someone from Caltrans must be watching webanars from the Concrete Preservation Alliance, the schedule seems to be a bit ambitious unless they intend to fully shore the roadway.

 

[davefitz]

The prior fire in Newark NJ was on 7 Aug 1989 under I-78 and not under I-95. It required a 1 yr closure. That fire origninated at a garbage recycling company, located under I-78.

I suspect that all states will need to inspect storage facilities under interstates and penalize those companies that are storing flammable materials under the overpasses. It really is a no-brainer.The practical problem is that all political deals are quid pro quos , so nothing will effectively be done unless the families of the politicans see real profits flow into their accounts.

In those cases where homeless encampments are involved, a balanced approach would be to fence off the overpass and also build an adjacent overhead shelter for the homeless, no more sophisiticated than a car parking lot with overhead rain protection. In theory, such shelters could also be under the overpass but using steel roofing that would act as a radiation shield in the event of a uncontrolled fire in the encampment.


"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[spsalso]

Since these businesses have been allowed to use and store dangerous materials under the freeways for quite some time, and the various government agencies that should have disallowed that practice did not,

then those agencies should relocate those businesses to a safe location at no cost to those businesses, and with the same rental fees at the new location.

Alternately, the appropriate government agencies could use an idea from the previous post on this topic, and suspend "radiation shields" under the freeway, and over the dangerous locations. Also around the columns. Of course, there's still be a messy fire to deal with, as there would be with his shelter suggestion for the homeless.

spsalso

 

[hokie66]

The collapse on I95 in Pennsylvania earlier this year was due to a tanker truck colliding with the bridge and catching fire. Different type bridge, and maybe not so long, but they got it up and running in about 2 weeks.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-95-in-just-two-weeks-is-dubbed-small-miracle

 

[davidbeach]

Did they get the bridge open in 2 weeks or did they just get the roadway open in 2 weeks? When, if yet, did they get the bridge open since it fell out of the news once the roadway was open?

I’ll see your silver lining and raise you two black clouds. - Protection Operations

 

[hokie66]

I95 was reportedly reopened in 12 days, which was the critical thing. Not sure about the roadway below.

 

[davefitz]

I am not a CE nor familiar with the ACI code, but an extended fire under an overpass will cause high shear strain between the rebar and the concrete, due to the difference in thermal expansion of steel vs concrete. Since managing the shear strain under load is a primary design consideration in the original construction ( design loads being vehicular traffic and earthquakes) , one likely needs to calculate the magnitude of the shear strain caused by differential thermal expansion between the rebar and the concrete.

As I seem to recall, the apparent thermal shear strain between 2 dissimilar bonded elements is (delta T) * (delta a), where (delta T) = heated temp minus original casting temp and (delta a) is the difference in coefficient of thermal expansion of steel rebar vs concrete. If this resulting shear strain exceeds the ACI limits of strain, then the original design load cannot be reliably sustained. The original casting temperature is about 60 F, while the heated temperature can be calculated either using legacy curves or via finite element model.

Anyhow, the 2 questions of the moment are (a) has such a calculation been made to confirm the ACI limit strain has not been exceeded and (b) is the decision to not demo a political decision or an engineering decision?

The reason this is bothering me is that I personally witnessed the failure of the crystal river unit 3 reactor containment dome by virtue of a poor "political decision", likely composed of the executive's rubbing his stomach 3 times in the counter clockwise direction, as opposed to following the recommendations in the engineering study for replacement of the steam generator.

The possibility of an earthquake occuring between now and November 2024 ( when the Newsome /Rice ticket is up for election) is pretty slim, so it is feasible that a political decision is being made.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[Ingenuity]

...due to the difference in thermal expansion of steel vs concrete.

The thermal coeff of concrete and steel is nearly the same (about 10 x 10[sup]-6[/sup]/°C)...that is one of the reasons why they are compatible to form a composite material.

 

[FacEngrPE]

thread815-507741
I updated that thread with current reports. Time to repair 2 lanes of I95 in PA about 4 months.

As long as the I-10 bridge deck is not broken up too much, the main question with a shoring solution likely is something like:

https://www.eng-tips.com/postedit.cfm?id=8946462&action=edit

[ul]
[li]Is removing load from the support columns enough?[/li]
[/ul]
or
[ul]
[li]Does the underside of the deck need to be uniformly supported to remove bending loads.[/li]
[/ul]

 

[dik]

Can the state file a lis pendens and freeze the lessor's assets?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[FacEngrPE]

Can the state and the sublessors sue the Lessor for fraud?

10 Freeway Closure: Caltrans inspections uncovered lease violations before property caught fire By Cristy Fajardo Published November 17, 2023 10:19PM FOX 10
Includes a copy of the
"September 16, 2022 NOTICE TO CURE BREACH OF LEASE AGREEMENTS"

which contains a bunch of references to the building and fire codes, including,
2019 California Building Code 105.1
– Remove all unsprinklered wooden sheds and buildings observed on site. Remove all electrical modifications observed from existing city lighting and rack storage over 12 feet

A Calfire spot inspection report dated 9/6/2022 is attached with additional detail of building code violations.

The report also indicates there is an inspection report dated Oct 5 2023. but that is not included.

 

[spsalso]

I love original source material.

Since the violations were apparently never corrected, I would expect an eviction was filed 30 days after the letter from Caltrans (dated September 16, 2022). I wonder where that went.

I am quite pleased that inspections were done.



spsalso

 

[IRstuff]

Since the violations were apparently never corrected, I would expect an eviction was filed 30 days after the letter from Caltrans (dated September 16, 2022). I wonder where that went.

That's where lawyer's come in; I recall that there used to be lawyers claiming that any tenant could easily stay put for 6 months after the posting of an eviction notice. Due process is part of the Constitution, asset forfeiture and eminent domain, not withstanding.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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