Fired for documenting accidents

[MacGyverS2000]

Not an engineering disaster, per se, but I imagine the readers of this particular forum would have more specific insight...

A discussion group I'm part of that deals in CNC machining recently had a post (with pics) of an accident. It seems a machinist decided to poke his head into the working area while the machine was spinning up, and in doing so lost a chunk of scalp... he'll survive with likely no lasting effects other than a healthier respect for moving machinery and a bald patch. While it serves as a good warning/reminder to others in the industry, I was surprised to see a number of posts warning the OP to remove the pics before they are fired. No one appeared willing to say why a company would fire an employee for documenting an accident, but I know some here would be happy to share their thoughts on the matter. I can't imagine it would even be legal to fire someone for that...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[BrianPetersen]

Documenting the accident wouldn't, but the stupidity of doing so in the first place might ...

 

[ScottyUK]

In this litigatious society, posting things into public domain which might later affect the outcome of a trial would be somewhat silly.

For example, if the photos being posted resulted in a long list of comments observing that the injured party was an idiot for putting his head in the way of a moving machine tool and that the injuries were part of Darwinian evolution taking place, then a judge might decide that the photos and comments had prejudiced the outcome of the his claim for compensation against the machine owner for the machine having defective guards.

 

[zeusfaber]

Did the photographs include identifiable pictures of the injured person? If so, and if the subject hadn't consented to publication, then the resulting violation of a colleague's privacy probably amounts to misconduct.

Who owns the copyright in the pictures?

What/who else was visible in the pictures?

Broadcasting the lessons from accidents is a good thing, but there are lots of ways you can get it wrong.

A.

 

[MikeHalloran]

One of my less fun jobs had me responsible for safety at a manufacturing plant with a long history of safety problems. I read a lot of regulatory material.

Later, while job shopping, I was supervising on a Saturday at a different plant in another state, when a minor accident occurred. I led the victim to the company nurse's office, executed appropriate first aid,
...
then documented the accident and the treatment in the logbook maintained for such things, and signed the entry, as I understood state law and Federal law required.


Since my name did not appear in their org chart or phone list, it took most of a week for management to track me down and yell at me for sullying their not unblemished record of accidents, possibly causing a rise in insurance premiums or triggering OSHA action. I don't recall them asking about the employee's prognosis.
Told them I didn't give a crap about their record.
Not fired that day.


A little while later, somebody discovered that 90 pct of the staff at that site was job shoppers, and let us all go at once.







Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[IRstuff]

While documenting the accident, per se, is probably not fireable, posting the information on the web is possibly dubious:

> it may reveal proprietary information about the machine setup, product design, tools, etc.
> it may have become part of that employee's employment file, thereby making it personnel data, which is confidential


TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[3DDave]

There are companies that fire people for documenting their own work. It's a way of avoiding ever having anything to turn over for legal 'discovery.' Mostly it's on a short delay - delete all e-mails over 30 days or 90 days old, that sort of thing.

In this case, it's also about potential effect of associating the company with an ugly incident, which is bad advertising, unless you are selling safety equipment and training.

 

[ScottyUK]

We have the automatic deletion of emails. It's irritating when you lose something you wanted to keep, but we can't really blame anyone but ourselves if we forget to file something important.

 

[IRstuff]

Outlook allows you to archive your emails into a .pst file that you can put somewhere safe.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[dik]

IRS: Use the *.pst files all the time... also when project closes, I run a *.pdf copy of the project (less attachments) and dump a copy of the *.pdf into the project folder and keep a copy for my own records. I also have an attachment folder.

Should have added... this is contrary to company policy...

Dik

 

[MikeHalloran]

Does Outlook still burp and lose _all_ of a .pst file's contents as the file nears 2Gb or so?

Just curious; I loved Outlook, but now I would only use it at gunpoint.




Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[dik]

Not encountered that, Mike, but my files are less than 2GB...

Dik

 

[FreddyNurk]

IRStuff, Group Policy these days is quite capable of disabling the archive to .pst file.

The root of the problem is that email inboxes are not meant to be used as long term storage of correspondence, but everyone seems to do it anyway.

EDMS Australia

 

[dik]

If the *.pst file wasn't created, then I would simply print it as a *.pdf file... it would get saved one way or another.

Dik

 

[GregLocock]

I suspect the thread title is misleading. The perp wasn't fired, he wasn't even warned by his company that we know of. The chances are the public dissemination of internal documentation is mentioned in his contract of employment, for instance I know that I shouldn't post photos I take inside company facilities unless it is cleared with management, even if a lot of tomato ketchup is involved.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[IRstuff]

Outlook seems to have gotten past the 2GB instability problem. Nevertheless, if the pst is that large, the program takes a little longer to start up.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[ScottyUK]

FreddyNurk,

Group Policy is a pain in the ass. ;-)

 

[FreddyNurk]

ScottyUK, I suppose it depends on what is being achieved by Group Policy and how it gets implemented. For standardisation of software deployments and configuration, it can be quite handy.

When the policy is configured such that it stops you from doing your work, its a pain in the ass. Luckily I now work somewhere where GP is used but doesn't get in the way.

I've heard a few horror stories from IT regarding misconfigured .pst files, so I do have some sympathy for people having to use such things. One was a .pst that grew too large for the storage location, so they migrated it to a memory stick, which corrupted itself, and because it was configured as POP3 there was no copy on the server. The 2Gb limit is another one.

EDMS Australia

 

[ScottyUK]

I agree Freddy. Sometimes it feels like IT's goals aren't always closely aligned with those of their customers.

 

[3DDave]

Fun fact for USB based memory sticks - they have a general-purpose micro controller with it's own RAM and non-volatile memory to manage the communications between the USB port and the flash memory. The cheap counterfeit ones lie about how much memory they actually have, but will report successfully writing the data. For example they can report there is 32GB capacity, but there's only 16 GB. Let the OS maintain the directory and just over-write existing files with new ones when it gets full.

While the same sort of thing might happen with rotating medium hard-drives, the difficulty in building the mechanical mechanism for those is so much higher than buying some highly available chips and programming and soldering up a nasty little piece of work.

Also possible - the USB drive initially posts to Windows as a memory stick. Then it waits a while and adds itself as a keyboard and a mouse; fires up a browser session or a CMD window and then goes to town, perhaps finally opening a network connection and shipping every bit of data it can get. Or patching in some other bit of code. And it can hold a ton of stuff in an area of flash that the OS cannot see because the microcontroller keeps it hidden.

This is why some places epoxy the USB ports. Not just because users might steal company secrets or some such, but to prevent an inside attack.