Germany seeks arrest of Ukranian Diver for Nord Stream bombing 4

[1503-44]

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024...diver-in-nord-stream-probe?traffic_source=rss

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[1503-44]

I'm not entirely convinced.

A sailboat is even difficult to fish from.
Finding the pipeline without sidescan sonar is a huge problem.
There were two distinct places seperated by many kilometers where the pipelines were damaged within a short time. Seems like the other point is entirely forgotten, yet makes things at least 4 times more complicated to pull off.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[3DDave]

Just a reminder. Both pipelines had been shut off from transporting natural gas to Germany before the damage was done due to the war -and- the Russians had majority ownership. If their war was successful, the pipelines would also be unnecessary for Russia as Russia would not charge themselves for the overland pipeline that currently passes through Ukraine.

All four explosions were noted by seismic detectors and, based on those detections and experience with underwater explosions, experts felt that each used between 300 and 400 kg of explosives.

In the Swedish economic zone the two craters were over 800 feet apart.

If the other underwater demolition expert was right, that only a few kilograms of shaped charge explosive was used, any divers would certainly have them both at hand and not needed to go that far apart. If the seismological estimate is correct the divers were moving nearly one metric ton of explosive by hand at each of the two main sites (four explosions altogether.)

Favorite quote from the Wikipedia article:

On 27 September 2022, European gas prices jumped 12 percent after news spread of the damaged pipelines, despite the fact that Nord Stream 1 had not delivered gas since August and Nord Stream 2 had never gone into service

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I am not either.

I say this as someone who has dived the Hampshire on trimix not rebreather.

And has set demo charges at 30 metres on air.

 

[zeusfaber]

Volume Vs Energy: I assumed that change was made sensible by the switch from town gas (whose calorific value is process-dependant) to natural gas (whose calorific value is much less variable). Is that rubbish?

 

[3DDave]

It has nearly 2 million residential and commercial customers. Pretty sure there's been no recent (50+ years) "town gas" involved. The mix in natural gas varies with the amount of other light hydrocarbons.

 

[1503-44]

Nat gas is usually between 1000-1100 BTU/ft3
Some pipelines are at the 1100 BTU mark near the production field, but after cooling in 1000+ miles of pipe, high btu condensates can drop out as liquids, which are caught in seperators or scrubbers at compressor stations resulting in somewhat lower btu values at the pipelines end points.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[1503-44]

800 ft apart at the site of Nordstream I explosions.

The Nordstream II site was many miles away.
The island is some 20mi long.

This diver is as clever as Shrödinger's cat, or ...

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Germany is just pissed off it forced them to stop buying Russian gas.


So I suspect this is a political move.

 

[zeusfaber]

3D/1503: Thanks for those explanations. Interesting.

A.

 

[1503-44]

Yup. Trying to throw whatever dirt they can on Ukraine at the moment.


At the production field end ...
A gathering line, even in a "dry gas" field, can have a pretty hot raw gas mix at 1350 btu, or more. Then on the other hand it could be pretty low, if there was a lot of N2, CO2,or other non HC gas content in the well. I've had some streams with 40% N2 and 10% CO2. These either get blended with better gas streams to get the N2 and other gas content down below their limits for natural gas streams if possible, or outright separated in a gas processing plant.


--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[3DDave]

Germany is just pissed off it forced them to stop buying Russian gas.

One gas line never having been used and the other having been shut off at the start of the war is missing from that logic. They were already forced to stop buying gas, by Russia.

1503-44 - that does not explain the change. A change like that is only made to hide the use of lower energy content material and is another form of shrinkflation. They had no trouble for at least 50 years in displaying both therms (billed) and cu.ft. and now they leave out the important number. I see it as no different than the power company shifting to Amps and neglecting to mention if the voltage been dropped rather than Watts.

I didn't mention the other distance because the boat can do that. A diver going 800 feet with hundreds of pounds of explosives is the more significantly difficult task.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Yes it was shut down by the Russians to put pressure on Europe over sanctions and refusing to certify the second.

I really have no clue who did actually destroy it.

I very much doubt it was a dude with trimix scuba gear on, diving off a yacht. 800ft with just the gear on is no small task.

There are multiple things going on in Germany at the moment economically and demographic. There is still support for Russia even though they have had a change visually of political direction.

 

[1503-44]

As I remember, Nordstream I was operating, but shut down due to political concerns. Nordstream II was waiting for certification to begin operating.

There was opposition to the political shut down bringing along considerable pressure to reopen it. The bombing complicated those arguments, effectively destroying the easy fix option.

Too many other possibilities (at least 1) to be a private individual (DIY James Bond Op) on a sailboat. It's pure Hollywood.


3DDave, its true that utility bills have never been easy to analyse. Especially for electricity in recent decades with their complicated price tier and variable rate structures. Gas was once measured and sold on a volume basis, sometimes with minimum btu content specifications, then it changed to only be sold using thermal content, but only for commercial contracts between producers, pipelines and local distribution companies. Residential consumers were never specifically required to be billed by energy use (BTU), due to their volumetric meters, and volumetric billing basis continued. I have not lived in the US for many years, so I can't say for certain what is being done at the residential level today, but if it has changed to energy content basis without a change from volumetric reading meters, it seems that there should be some indication of the conversion factor being used to calculate the bill for the thermal units consumed, in Therms, or Btu. Do you see something called "energy factor" on your bill? Is it a number in the 1.05 - 1.025 - 1.050- 1.150 range? Who is your local distribution company?



--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Russia basically wanted II certified.

They claimed they couldn't operate I because hardware was stuck in Canada due sanctions.

Sweden and Denmark have investigated it but haven't released anything.

No clue if insurance money is involved and if it changes things if they can point it at this individual.

 

[3DDave]

"Residential consumers were never specifically required to be billed by energy use (BTU)"

I only have 45 years of billing in Therms. The change to cu. ft. is recent. My meter measures the volume that comes out - now only the gas company knows the energy content they put in. I'd go back and look, but I see no benefit to me to hide that information. The advantage for them is to pocket the difference. The bills also used to include "degree-days" to indicate the relative demand for heating. That has also been dropped.

"Nordstream I was operating, but shut down due to political concerns."

It was shut down in an attempted extortion for unopposed murder. "concerns" sugar coats it more than Candy Mountain.

The ruptures made the arguments moot.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Yep but it did completely block Germany from getting gas from Russia. There was considerable political pressure to protect the German economy by still using it.

 

[1503-44]

There are some factions that still dream of reconnecting ru gas.
Oddly enough, the Ukranians themselves have not closed off transmissions of ru gas to Hungary and others, even as those pipelines cross Ukraine territory itself where it would be more than easy done to stage an "accident" there.

3DDave
My gas bills were always billed by cf. If it was 999 btu I would not have known, or cared as long as the gas central heat, water heater and stove continued working. It was still about 1/4 the cost of equivalent electricity, so whatever the actual Btu content was, I thought of it as a good deal.

Average Btu/cf content in US is 1030.
North Dakota and West Virgina is over 1060 (close to rich gas source wells)
Hawaii is 975
Pure methane has 1010

EIA collects the gas content along with other info from all power plants and keeps a database of Btu content of gas fuel via this survey

https://www.templateroller.com/temp...rm-eia-923-power-plant-operations-report.html

From that, they extract Gas Heat content by state, which you can download here.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_cons_heat_a_EPG0_VGTH_btucf_a.htm

NBS Natural Gas Handbook
The purpose of the handbook is to promote a. better understanding of gas metering principles and the computations involved. in the sale of natural gas. The handbook was prepared by the National Bureau of Standards, Center for. Chemical Engineering, for the U.S. Air Force under project order No. F84-67.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...VPUB-C13-f74d9a2426ba4903a226a96e2959b8ec.pdf

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[3DDave]

So, they can tell me, but choose not to? I have never ever wanted to hold a cubic foot of natural gas; if the energy content varies per cu. ft. why would I want to pay by cu. ft?

Sure, if you don't care what it costs, then you don't care how it is priced.

I simply don't care for it when a company goes out of their way to hide the true cost to them while raising the actual cost to me.

Here's another piss-me-off example. The snack size boxes of raisins. They used to be filled to the top. Just jammed in there. Now they are roughly half full and not so tightly packed. I don't believe a change from "per the ounce" to "per the box" would be a positive one, but the gas company does.

 

[TugboatEng]

The mental image of a grown man pouting about it being infuriating by his snack sized raisin box not being filled to the top makes me LOL.

Here in the USA we sell everything by weight. Increase the moisture content of the raisin and you don't have to put so many in the box.

This reminds me of the recent complaint about restaurants selling meat by the pre-cooked weight. Those must be the people that like their steaks well done.

 

[3DDave]

I don't care they aren't filled to the top. I care they are lying by keeping the package the same size and reducing the weight in the tiny print. I know they are lying. They know customers know they are lying.

I guess some think that lies are just a part of doing business. I recall Louis Rossmann's ire at being shown "5000 sq ft" business spaces that were 2200 sq ft. When asked the real estate rep said "That's just the way it is in New York City."

The comparison is that if the gas has lower caloric value in the same volume then that is a problem if the product is sold by volume.

The mental image of a person who can miss so clear a message suggests a need for better ventilation in the engine room.