Floating Parcel Help Needed in PA

[HB2U]

Hi all, hope someone here can shed a bit of light on this for me....

Here's the background. A neighboring property was recently sold and the new owner had his lot surveyed. With his lot came a 24ft by 37ft piece of property that had been carved out of my property around 1915.

My property description dates back to about 1800 and all calls and distances remained the same during that entire period according to the deed research that I've done.

The new neighbor called and told me that since that parcel is floating, i.e. it does not call out any substantive landmarks in it's description, it can be placed anywhere along the shared property boundary. I disagree because the metes and bounds description gives a bearing and distance along the edge of a road as one of the calls. The remaining calls in the description are taken at 90 degrees to one another so that the property forms a perfect rectangle.

This parcel is currently situated (at least the zig-zag in my fence puts it here) at a 3 street intersection on the inside of a curve in the roadway. I know that the road was realigned years ago when they removed the old wooden bridge, but I'm not sure whether it encroached on his little piece of property or not.

Anyway, assuming that the road didn't engulf his little piece, I think that in order to correctly locate that parcel all that would have to be done is to locate the tangent on this curve of the road that matches the bearing of the original deed that is given to be parallel to the road edge. Is that right?

I currently have a request in to the PADOT archives department to see if I can find an old plan of the area.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I want to give the guy what is rightfully his, but he's coming across in a really threatening manner so I wanted to know if there's any set way that this type of parcel should be pinned down. That way I'll know what to do next.

Thanks.

 

[jheidt2543]

A couple thoughts to consider:

1. I like your idea of getting a copy of the DOT plans, they should show the adjacent property lines before and after the road changes.

2. If your neighbor's survey was done for the transfer of the property, then it would have been filed as a "certified survey" with the Register of Deeds. That filing makes it a public record and you should be able to get a copy of the certified survey from your County Register of Deeds for a nominal cost of reproduction. Review that survey to see how the surveyor handled the parcel in question.

3. Call the surveyor that and ask him how he handled location of the so called "floating parcel". He should be able to tell you how he did it and why he did it that way.

4. If the fence line follows your understanding of the 1915 parcel and the fence has been in use that long, or nearly that long, then that should be evidence of where the property line is, based on long standing usage.

 

[TerryScan]

I am not a Registered Land Surveyor, but have been involved in the business for 15 years. I have never heard of a "floating parcel". I have never heard of any situation where someone gets to choose where an existing parcel lies.

Your ideas may be on the right track, and may even get close. There can be many other sources of evidence of the parcel's location other than the deed for the parcel itself. I agree with Jheidt that talking to the neighbor's surveyor would be a good idea as well as obtaining DOT plans.

I you still aren't happy, and you think it is worth it...hire a surveyor of your choosing.

 

[KRSServices]

I think it would be best to consult with a surveyor to undertake a proper and definitive interpretation of your title description. I also think your neighbour is a good salesman and is trying to sell you on an idea that does not exist.

The plan of subdivision, even if registered back in the 1800's, can be found at the land registries office and you can easily obtain a copy of it. If you do not wish to hire the surveyor, you can also research and obtain copies of caveats and revisions to the original plan of survey from the office as well.

That will put the issue to rest.

KRS Services

http://www.krs-services.com

 

[HB2U]

Thanks for the info KRS. The problem is that you can only find the plans at the courthouse if they were submitted to the courthouse. This transaction took place more than 100 years ago and in this county, the record keepping wasn't really good intil the 1950's.

Fortunately though I found a PADOT plan from their archives that shows the location of the floating parcel, so that will be all the information that I need.

Thanks everybody for your help with this issue. It's never a nice feeling for someone to atttempt to bully you into paying too much for something.

Now the tables are turned...

Thanks again.

 

[gravel]

HB2U...I think I understand what you are discussing... I'm a PLS in PA, and can say that you will not likely find any prior survey mappings, as prior tract cutout work was mostly done by deed descriptions alone. From the older descriptions you have of your property and his, you should be able to reconstruct where the road "should" be, before it got rebuilt and shifted around. Then using the few calls stated in that "floater" deed, tie down it's location. This is applicable only if the floater deed is as old as where the old road location was. Else, you would need to base you floater measurements of the road location where it was when the floater tract deed was conveyed. Truthfully, the PaDOT mapping isn't really much, as propertylines on it are all approximate anyhow; just use it to see if someone else saw the same solution as yours. Keep in mind, older PaDOT maps reflect a centerline that might not be the same as propertyline, as their R/W back then is just an easement to encompass the existing road alignment at the time.

 

[HB2U]

Thanks for the info gravel. The neighbor has since dissappeared, not o be heard from since he made the initial "shot over my bow".

the PADOT drawing that I got from their archives shows the corners of their fouindation and the location of the parcel corners can be (roughly) measured from those fixed points. Interestingly enough, the floating parcel is located in precisely the same spot it was in 1941 when PADOT widened and realigned the road.

I think I'll tell him to pound sand since the parcel isn't large enough to build on, and it's at least a hundred yards away from the house, so I'll have a really high tolerance for whatever ugly thing he wants to put there anyway.

Thanks again for the information.