"For the good of the company" 15

[Guest0527211403]

Hi All,

Here's my situation:
I'm a few months in at a new job. When I started here, the boss hinted that from time to time, I'd be asked to work on bids and proposals to bring in new work. This proposal work is not "billed" time, and so would be outside of the 40 regular hours that I'm assigned to projects. I have no problem with that. A month or so into the job, I received a bid package started by one of my coworkers and was asked to edit it and prepare it for submission. The grammar and language in the bid were lacking, so I cleaned it up, made it look like a professional document and submitted it.

The boss must have been impressed with my work, as he then told me that I'd have a bigger role in bid preparation from then on. I didn't think much of it at first and just went back to my regular design duties.

A few weeks ago, we received a new RFP which is much larger than anything the company has ever bid on. Moreover, it's in a new field where our company has never worked. It was put on me to organize the proposal writing effort from start to finish, including using resources within the company to develop the concept and do the background research.

The projects we are working on (for which we are paid) are taking us well past 40 hours per week. Adding this proposal would effectively mean adding 15-20 hours to a few team members' weekly schedules. It has been made perfectly clear by upper management that our "paid-for" project schedules should not be impacted, and that this proposal will "make or break" the company, so it should also be given our full attention.

Today I was chewed out for the fact that the team did not do as much work as they should have (on the proposal) over the weekend. I was told that it's my job to motivate the team to come in and work for free (recall that I've only been here a few months). When I ask how I can ask this of people with families, I'm told that it's "for the good of the company", and that people should be more than willing to work for free in order to ensure that they have a job in the future.

I'm curious to know how some of you have dealt with a situation like this in the past. I'm burning the candle at both ends right now, and my nerves are shot. This morning's roasting (of me) almost had me packing up my stuff and leaving, but I took a walk around the building, put my head down and got back to work. I'm willing to "suck it up", but I'd hate to see the lining of my stomach (if I even have one) in a few years if this keeps up. Words of wisdom from E-T members have gotten me through a number of pickles in the past, so I'm hoping that you'll be able to spare a little more of that magic.

 

[PLukacovic]

Seems to me like they are using the economy's poor condition to take advantage of their workers. You should not have to go insane working 60 hour weeks just to ensure that you have a job in the future. It seems like management is willing to have you work long hours so that they can ensure themselves of a future job.

It's not worth the stree, in my option. Dust off the resume and see where it takes you. If you start getting offers, then notify your employer and see where that goes. You seem like a valuable asset: they may not want to lose you.

 

[ivymike]

on one hand, it sounds like you've been handed a once-in-a-job opportunity to shine.

on the other hand, it sounds like "shining" is not the present direction of the project (to develop the proposal for a project).

 

[PEDARRIN2]

Are you salary or hourly?

If salary - you are usually expected to work whatever it takes to get jobs done - even if it means more than 40 hours and weekends. That counterbalances the times when work is slow and you may not have 40 hours worth of work but get paid for 40 hours.

If hourly - then there is no "for the good of the company". I once had a boss who told me that hourly is, "you no pay, me no work".

Also, any job that is causing the stress you seem to be experiencing - especially for one not too long with the company - may not be worth it.

And any single proposal that will "make or break" the company may indicate the company is nearly broken.

 

[ewh]

How large is the company (both $$ and employees)?
Are you and the other team members salaried?
If this situation were to happen to me at my current position, I would knuckle under and get the job done. It is expected to put forth this type of effort from time to time.
If I were considered hourly however, I would put up a fight. A company should have funds dedicated to quotes and proposal work, and asking hourly workers to work for free is against labor laws.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[ewh]

Gee, there weren't any replies when I started mine.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[Guest0527211403]

Thanks so far for answers. In response:
-I am paid on a salary basis.
-Company is small (<30 employees, not too sure how much $ is made annually)

ivymike, your first point is what keeps me getting up in the morning.

 

[rowingengineer]

"That counterbalances the times when work is slow and you may not have 40 hours worth of work but get paid for 40 hours"

Yep and pigs might fly.

I find this strange that they have a policy that bids are work on for free. I have never had this happen; normally this would count as an overhead to a company. Thus employees should be paid for there time and input.

My next question would be did management work the weekend????? Do they handle many bids? If the situation is caused by them not being able to handle the bids then I would stick it out, putting this down as a one off. Alternatively if they refuse to work on bids preferring to give it to the employees then I’m walking out the door at my first available opportunity.


Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that them like it

 

[zdas04]

Just as a general rule, anyone who uses the term "good of the company" is stealing from someone. Another red-light phrase is "put on the big hat". Either one of them should set off alarm bells.

I had a boss once (while working 60+ hours/week) come into my office with a "critical" project that he wanted me to do. I pointed to my "current" stack and asked "which other deadline to you want to slip?". He said "we have nights and we have weekends". I took the package, dropped it on my desk and went to a bar (it was after quitting time). For the next year I worked 40 hours per week--no nights, no weekends. The first month or so deadlines suffered, then it steadied out. At the end of the year I looked at my backlog and it was almost exactly what it had been before my work slowdown. After everyone got over being disappointed in my lack of dedication they looked at my work product and I got good raises and early promotions. After that, I set my own priorities and only worked overtime on the stuff that I thought was important--a lot less stress and still good results.

The reason for relating that story is to say, set your own priorities. If your boss thinks you are going too slow, ask him for his personal help and guidance, say Saturday at 5:30 am so you don't take too much of his weekend?

David

 

[macmet]

I was worked to the bone for almost a full year once. I thought I was doing it for the good of company. Then raises came and no one got anything but the boss got a nice new car (which we refer to as the company rocket). I have been bitter about my job ever since and looking for something new. This recession is starting to get to me.

Anyway, I learnt that lesson fast. I now work 40hrs/week max (unless I'm on a job site).

I do question though, if I'd have a hard limit on hours if I liked my job and was treated better.

 

[plasgears]

They say that general health is a function of your ability to have control over your life. The salaried man will send out the resumes and struggle to find better work. Don't settle for small companies with questionable staffs and unqualified management.

In aerospace, we did overtime and got paid for it. In later employment, we were expected to show up on Saturday. I came a few times until I found that it was coffee and donuts and nothing more. So much for working extra hours. What a waste.

 

[HgTX]

"That counterbalances the times when work is slow and you may not have 40 hours worth of work but get paid for 40 hours."

What?? I've never heard of people on salary not being required to be in the office for the full 40 hours when times are slow. Time spent in the office, whether it's productive work or not, is still time given to my employer, and not my time.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[rday]

Writing proposals is part of the cost of doing business. Employees should be properly compensated for the time they spend doing it.

I work for a firm of 14 people, some weeks up to 40% of my time is non-billable (I am not one of the owners). As long as I list what I was doing for the overhead time I get no grief from the bosses.

I work a little overtime here and there and don't worry about it, but overall it's 40 and out.

 

[jmw]

Its maybe OK to handle the occasional job on an ad hoc basis when ocassional is all it is and for workers to help out out "for the good of the company" and later on management shows its appreciation somehow... even if just by saying thank you.

But when it becomes institutionalised and "expected" with no rewards and in fact stick given, then too bad.
They have to expect to get what they pay for. There will be some families that don;t appreciate extra work for no extra benefit and what will happen is that some people will start looking for work elsewhere and when they find it they'll go.

If this is important then management needs to treat this as important and allocate resources and fund the bid or walk away from it.

Even exploitation has its limits.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[KENAT]

You could go back to your boss, ask him if there will be a direct reward for preparing the bid 'on your (and the others) own time' and say this may help motivate the others to help out. A previous employer didn't have over time for salaried staff but needed some extra time, so basically said I'd get an end of year bonus to compensate me. They were as good as their word.

I don't have a problem being a bit flexible, giving a bit of time without direct extra pay when necessary, maybe once in a while even getting up to the 50% extra mark they're asking for. However, once they start demanding it, without explicitly stating the reward, it rubs me the wrong way.

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(probably not aimed specifically at you)
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[patprimmer]

If they demand you work for free for the good of the company, they should be prepared to give you a slice of the company, or at least a %age of the said projects.

Same for the others they are asking you to exploit on their behalf.

Anything else and they are just abusing current job insecurity to steal from you and worse still to pressure you into conspiring to steal from others.



Regards
Pat
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[TDAA]

""That counterbalances the times when work is slow and you may not have 40 hours worth of work but get paid for 40 hours."

What?? I've never heard of people on salary not being required to be in the office for the full 40 hours when times are slow."

Yeah, and when it really slows down, they ask you to come in for the forty, but every one needs to take a 10-20% pay cut.

I find it odd that they expect 100% billable on a 40 hr week.

 

[btrueblood]

"If your boss thinks you are going too slow, ask him for his personal help and guidance, say Saturday at 5:30 am so you don't take too much of his weekend?"

A star for that one, David.

I've always worked more than 40 (hrs/week), but there have been times, especially after a string of 50's and 60's, that I've taken some extra time off, usually with the boss' ok. Ask for that compensation (extra time off down the road) up front, see what they say.

 

[patprimmer]

I must say I also like Davids approach.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[ajack1]

Whilst I am often amazed at what some people on here think are unreasonable requests for professional salaried engineers I do think this is totally unreasonable.

Both in and out of work some people are put upon, anyone who is a member of a club outside of work be that a golf club a walking club or whatever will probably have come across the situation where a couple of people do about 95% of the work whilst most of the others just moan and say how much better they could have done the job. However when an extra job comes up guess who ends up doing it.

I do think the idea of saying to your boss lets meet up on Saturday at 5.30 am is a stupid one, who is going to win from this? This will either get his back up and you will be seen in a bad light, when you should be seen as a star of the company for doing what you are doing or he will say fine lets start at 5.30 and put in a 14 hour day to get on top of this. What good can come from this?

Personally I would try and talk to him and explain the situation, saying that you do not mind doing some extra time for the good of the company, but you feel that after 40 hours of hard graft, quoting such a large project and spending so many extra hours on it is having a detrimental effect on your work, family and social life and your health. Say you are not prepared to continue like this and ask for his suggestions as to how to improve the situation.

If he refuses to be reasonable at least you have tried and know where you stand and have better information to make a decision about what to do from there.