Funny nameplate 2

[Skogsgurra]

Hi!

Any comments with regard to this nameplate?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[DickDV]

Looks like the low/high voltage part is mislabeled Y and Delta. Voltage and current ratios aren't correct.

 

[DickDV]

I suppose that the motor could be dual wound with a 230V Y winding and a completely separate 460V delta winding but then the power would not likely be the same. I'm assuming the 1500 is watts.

 

[Skogsgurra]

It is a French motor.

Perhaps they made the nameplate after lunch?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[stardelta]

Skoggs?
What is the concern exactly? It would appear to be a typical nameplate from a European manufacturer. They way I read it, it is a 3ph 1.5kw dual-voltage machine, 2 pole at 60hz, suitable for 220v or thereabouts if connected in star, likewise 440v if conected in delta. Current ratios are out slightly but thats not uncommon. What is unusual is that at the higher voltage its intended for delta operation, generaly Euro motors below 4kw run in star at the higher voltage and delta in the lower. The type no does not include any IEC frame size which makes me think there is something special about it though.

 

[ozmosis]

I think dynapac are part of Atlas-Copco group so likly it is specially wound for whatever it came off. They seem to like messing with motors in that group. Rated speed seems odd for 60Hz.
Having said that, as you say Gunnar...it is French!

 

[oldfieldguy]

3480 RPM?

old field guy

 

[rbulsara]

I tend to agree with stardelta.

 

[petronila]

Hello All,

Agree with Skogs and DickDV,

The name plate is funny and strange and for my concern this name plate don´t match with one motor manufactured by IEC or NEMA standard.

¿How a 2 pole single winding dual voltage could be Star connection for 220 V and Delta connection for 460 V ? The righ will be delta connection for 220 V and Star connection for 380 Volts.The current relation don´t match for 220 and 460 Volts, in one motor the low voltage current is the twice of high voltage current if the low voltage is the half of high voltage.

The standard european motors are manufactured with six leads but the dual voltage motors match with the relation 1,732(380/220) or (660/380)if the motor is designed only to run in delta the six leads will help only for the star-delta starting ¿If the motor will be only for work in Delta for 460 V why use the 220 Volts information?
I thing the motor was manufactured for 50 Hz and maybe for send the motor out of europe the name plate was wrong changed for 60 Hz.if you see with detail the name plate was not printed like the originals and was relabelled.

Some motors manufacturers use twelve leads and for 60 Hz you can connect the motor in two deltas for 220 V -Two stars for 380 V and delta for 440 V and work proper in delta for 380 V -50 Hz and in star 660 V-50 Hz.But can´t work for 220 V-50 Hz.This is a very commun practice in Brazil due to in this countrie they have 50 and 60 Hz and a Voltage mixing.

Regards

Petronila

 

[rbulsara]

peronila:

The basic assumpiton you made that the motor will be fed from the single Wye source is not always true.

The nameplate simply means that if you have a 220V nominal source the motor needs to be connected in Wye and if the source is 460V nominal it should be connected in delta.

The way I see it this device can be used either on 208V-230V system or 440V-480V system. The it does not matter whetehr the source is Wye or delta or where they come from.

 

[Runsor]

Petronila mentioned mixing up 50 Hz and 60 Hz.
460 x 50/60 = 380, which is equal to 220 x sqrt(3).
Is that a coincidence?

 

[Skogsgurra]

Yes Runsor! That's probably the correct interpretation.

But, then again, the frequency stated is only 60 Hz, no 50 Hz mentioned. The delta voltage is higher than the wye voltage - which anyone that knows anything about induction motors understands is completely wrong.

It is also interesting that petronila observed the relabelling.

Those who think that this is a normal European nameplate need to study such nameplates a little more.

The full load RPM 3480 is not so uncommon for a 2 HP motor. Slip is just above three percent, which is quite normal for a small motor.

I was really stuck here. If the high voltage had been indicated for Wye, I could perhaps have lived with it. But the nameplate says the opposite, high voltage for Delta.

And, there is the two to one current ratio. I don't quite get that. It should be sqrt(3) to one. Any good explanation there?

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[rbulsara]

ok..I see high and low voltage may have been swapped, but still it has nothing to do with the source configuration or frequency.

American lunches can also be as bad (or good) as french!

 

[oftenlost]

Looks like they used a wye/delta nameplate on a motor set up for 1/2 circuit.

 

[waross]

Does the motor have 9 leads?
The 60 Hz leads me to believe that the motor was prepared for export.
The wye delta leads me to believe that they used an available name plate which happened to be pre-marked for star and delta. The 220 volts is probably another mistake. 220 volts may be common in Europe but it should have been marked 230:460 for use in North America.
1500 watts correlates with the currents and voltages given.
Respectfully
Bill

 

[Skogsgurra]

New information: There are six leads. The peckerhead looks like that of any standard motor. Is wired Wye right now. 400 V 50 Hz 3-phase mains.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[petronila]

Yes Skogs,

This is a reinforcement of the theory about the relabelled name plate and confirms the motor was designed for 50 Hz-380 Volts- Wye Connection operation.

The original name plate was wrong changed by the "Funny " maybe for export matters, due to all the motors normally was designed to 50 Hz they don`t have at hand an original name plate for 60 Hz and like alternative they use an empty data name plate like the "Funny" to be filled with the 60 Hz data but in this case they don`t perform a good job.

Regards,

Petronila

 

[Skogsgurra]

The time of wonders is not over!

I got an answer from the factory. They say:

1. The motor is wound for 230/400V-3-50Hz
2. The nameplate was probably made after lunch.
3. Do not pay any attention to what it says.

Gunnar Englund

http://www.gke.org

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100 % recycled posting: Electrons, ideas, finger-tips have been used over and over again...

 

[slavag]

Hi.
, ;-).
Great, Great!!!!
Regards.
Slava

 

[DickDV]

Skogs! Did you call the factory right after lunch?!!! Hope not!!!