Gainsville, GA cryogenic N2 release results in multiple fatalities 8

[stookeyfpe]

As tragic as this incident was, it was a completely preventable incident. I haven't taken the time to research the GA Fire Code but I know the state adopts the ICC International Fire Code which has specific requirements for indoor use of LN2 (liquid nitrogen) based on various Compressed Gas Association standards, which are adopted by reference in the IFC.

https://www.csb.gov/csb-deploying-to-fatal-incident-at-poultry-plant-outside-of-atlanta-ga/

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-m...on-in-gainesville/6BIXXUI5WNEOPAJRIBYRWVVWRQ/

 

[JohnRBaker]

What struck me when I read some of the first reports from yesterday was how they had ordered a lock-down at a nearby school because of fear that the escaping Nitrogen could poison the school children. Considering that the school was like half a mile away and that Nitrogen already makes-up 78% of the earth's atmosphere, that this seemed a bit of an overreaction. Of course, it could have simply been an overzealous reporter with little or no idea exactly what Nitrogen is, trying to get a bigger headline since the last few items that I've read about this incident, including the ones referenced by the OP, that bit of 'news' was never mentioned.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[EdStainless]

Plants that I worked in that had bulk gasses had O2 meters around.
We had a case one time where a supply line from a bulk Ar tank failed (regulator) and filled the basement with Ar.
Our compressors were down there and they tripped off in overload trying to compress the heavier gas.
One of our engineers started into the basement to check. Fortunately he was a SCUBA diver and recognized the lack of O2 quickly and got back upstairs before he passed out.
We then add more o2 sensors with secondary displays next to the front door.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[davidbeach]

O2 sensors also need to be installed low in the room or high in the room (or both) depending on the possible displacement gasses. O2 sensors at a convenient eye-level mounting will be nearly useless.

I’ll see your silver lining and raise you two black clouds. - Protection Operations

 

[JohnRBaker]

You put the sensor(s) where it needs to be, as noted based on the suspected threat, but putting the warning device, be it a flashing light or alarm, closer to eye level makes perfect sense, including placing them near any entrance to the area of concern.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

Just out of curiosity, our CO sensor is mounted 'high' in the basement just to catch CO if it comes upstairs into the living space... should I be adding one low, too?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[IFRs]

The question is: is CO lighter than air at the conditions in the space. If so then locate the sensor high. If not (aka Argon or gasoline fumes) the locate the sensor low. In either case, locating the alarm at eye level is best.

Nitrogen is quick and deadly. In our industry we are EXTREMELY careful when using a N2 blanket inside a vessel.

We do a lot of aluminum field welding (miles per project in confined spaces) and we constantly talk about not lying down to rest in hot weather because of the possibility that the Argon could puddle around the welder. Ventilation is used but you can't blow directly at the arc so there is a risk. Occasionally a new guy complains of headache at shift end and often it can be traced to a prone attitude.

 

[dik]

CO is heavy... and should be mounted low... but being the basement is the 'only' source of CO, I mounted the detector to one of the beams... I think it still protects the upstairs. N, like CO is odourless... and, I understand, it kills without warning... CO causes some side effects, I think...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

Our house has no basement and it's a single story ranch, so our CO detector is down low, in the hallway between the living side and the sleeping side of the house.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[itsmoked]

COs should be low. They tend to be plug-in to a wall outlet design as that's just about the right height.

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[1503-44]

It depends. Be sure to Consider the temperature of the gas you are monitoring in relation to the temperature of the space, not just its relative density to air at at 69°F. CO fire monitoring, as a product of combustion, is likely to rise. Cryogenic N2, or CO2 is likely to be cold and sink to low levels.

 

[Latexman]

CO (28 g/g-mole) is slightly lighter than air (29 g/g-mole) at the same temperature.

Good Luck,
Latexman

 

[dik]

Thanks... thought it was heavier... after itsmoked... not sure now. Lighter or heavier, it's location will trigger before it gets upstairs... plugging in could be a convienience?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[1503-44]

If you survive, you will never forget the headache. CO2 as well.

 

[dik]

Thanks for the 'heads up'.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Kinda bugs me the article tweets saying "chemical explosions"... :-|

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

I guess too many people assume that any disaster where the word Nitrogen is used is automatically a "chemical explosion" because of incidents like the Oklahoma City bombing, where the bomb was made from Nitrogen fertilizer and diesel fuel or the disaster in West, TX where an explosion at a Nitrogen fertilizer plant nearly destroyed an entire town.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Latexman]

Yes, nitrogen is odorless too.

Maria del Rosario Palacios leads Georgia Familias Unidas, a Latino advocacy group in Gainesville. She said a number of workers told her they developed headaches, apparently from a lack of oxygen. She said workers told her there was a loud noise, and then some workers were rushed into a room at the plant before going outside, with a strong odor indicating the presence of nitrogen.

In an emergency you cannot depend 100% on witnesses; they are busy saving their lives. The nitrogen jet may have stirred up something else.


Good Luck,
Latexman

 

[Latexman]

Most news articles say there was an explosion like sound. Could be pipe or equipment failure. It may also have been Rapid Phase Transition (RPT), like running liquid nitrogen into liquid water that had not been drained thoroughly. Now, that would have been a "chemical explosion". Let's see what the CSB finds.

Good Luck,
Latexman

 

[Latexman]

This may the first mention of the cause.

Of the six people killed Thursday by the ruptured liquid nitrogen line at Gainesville’s Foundation Food Group plant, five were Latino; 11 more people were injured. A 3-year-old child lost both parents in the accident, according to Arturo Corso, a local lawyer who has worked with families from the plant.

Good Luck,
Latexman