Gainsville, GA cryogenic N2 release results in multiple fatalities 8

[stookeyfpe]

As tragic as this incident was, it was a completely preventable incident. I haven't taken the time to research the GA Fire Code but I know the state adopts the ICC International Fire Code which has specific requirements for indoor use of LN2 (liquid nitrogen) based on various Compressed Gas Association standards, which are adopted by reference in the IFC.

https://www.csb.gov/csb-deploying-to-fatal-incident-at-poultry-plant-outside-of-atlanta-ga/

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-m...on-in-gainesville/6BIXXUI5WNEOPAJRIBYRWVVWRQ/

 

[dik]

Nitrogen is extremely stable... that's why when it makes compounds, they tend to be unstable.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[MortenA]

An explosion like Sound could be a pipe rupture caused by over pressure caused by a closed in volume?

 

[JohnRBaker]

...over pressure caused by a closed in volume

Which is the classic definition of any explosive event.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[waross]

As far as I know;
As the air in the lungs is absorbed, the CO2 concentration in the lungs rises, first triggering another breath, and then, if a breath is not taken, the gasp reflex.
Increasing nitrogen levels do not trigger the gasp reflex.
You just quietly pass out and die.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, since the atmosphere is already 78% Nitrogen, the body has probably long evolved to the point where more Nitrogen is not going to trigger any sort of noticeable reaction, just eventual unconsciousness, as Bill said.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[zeusfaber]

As far as I know

Absolutely. It's just the same as passing out in a low PPO2 atmosphere caused by rusting metal sucking the oxygen out of the space, leaking refrigerant displacing all the air or lack of overall atmospheric pressure. I gave passing out under one of those circumstances a bit of a go about 35 years ago, and it's disturbingly difficult to recognise that anything at all is wrong - I totally missed it even having been told what to expect.

A.

 

[Eufalconimorph]

That's why the chemical names for nitrogen-containing molecules tends to have "azote"-derived words in them. Lavoisier suggested "azote" for Nitrogen from the Greek ἀζωτικός "no life", since it silently asphyxiates living things. And words derived from that are used in quite a few non-English languages. This US CSB video is a good intro to the dangers of nitrogen asphyxiation.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Any closed in piece of pipe containing liquid nitrogen will be capable of building pressure significantly higher than the triple point (345 bar - 5000 psi). The applicable piping codes require every piece of pipe able to be closed in to have it's own "hydro-static" relief valve. Even smaller components like gate valves need to be designed so that any trapped liquid can vent (usually by connecting the gate slot to one side of the valve).

Failing to take this requirement of cryogenic piping system design into account is a sure way to burst a pipe the first time it is closed in. This is only one of the possible scenarios.

Should Food Plants (or perhaps everyone) using large quantities of Cryogenic Liquids indoors be subject to HAZOP rules?

Fred

 

[RedSnake]

Should Food Plants (or perhaps everyone) using large quantities of Cryogenic Liquids indoors be subject to HAZOP rules?

In Sweden it is reguated in The Swedish Work Environment Authority's regulations on the use and control of pressurized devices.
I do not know which EU directive it is based on.

Inside EU all machinery built is subject to "HAZOP" rules.
It is a part of the Machinery Directive to make a hazard study.
The biggest problem here is that they do not need to deliver there hazards study with the machine.
The only way of getting it is to demand that, it is include in the purchase.
If you do have it, and a serious accident happens, you need to go to the EU court and claim that they did not meet the requirements of the MD and the manufacturer need to provide the hazard analysis to prove he account for all risk.
Otherwise he will be liable for damages and revocation or rebuilding of the equipment.
All new build equipment put together with different appliances from different suppliers must undergo the same risk/hazard analysis.

I am not shore how big a difference it is from your standards.

But a risk/hazard analysis never become better then the people that makes it, if the group is to uniform that is not god thing.

Best Regards A


“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[stookeyfpe]

Update from the Atlanta Journal Constitution:

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-ne...sville-plant-leak/T73JWADI5ZEADHIIJ6OFFO2TNM/

Three daily tractor trailer deliveries of LN2 is a very demanding system. The building housed flash freezing units for chickens. The N2 system had been constructed and commissioned in the past 4-6 weeks. The plant engineer saved lives by shutting down the system at the source.

 

[JohnRBaker]

With a system this new, I'm thinking of one of two possibilities. Either there was a problem with the installation and it took this long before whatever finally let loose. The other scenario is that perhaps the people charged with operating and/or maintaining the system had not been adequately trained or their unfamiliarity with the system led to someone making a serious mistake or miscalculation. We can hope that the investigators will uncover what really happened, and if it's something that could have been prevented, that action is taken at this and similar facilities so as to avoid it happening again.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[FacEngrPE]

U.S. Chemical Safety Board provides update on deadly Gainesville nitrogen leak
•Jan 30, 2021

https://youtu.be/AJrmKL1PB2U

Other information here

https://twitter.com/chemsafetyboard

and here

https://www.csb.gov/

Fred

 

[dik]

CO2 is actually a respiratory stimulant whereas CO fixes to the hemoglobin...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[stookeyfpe]

The Times newspaper in Gainesville, GA has reported that the CSB found tools in the area where one of the new flash freezing units. Again, avoiding speculation, this finding raises more concerns about the employees understanding of LN2.

https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/ne...eak-reported-911-calls-foundation-food-group/

 

[Latexman]

And Lock Out / Tag Out, Safe Work Permits, etc., etc., etc.

Good Luck,
Latexman

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, I can remember when I was out on a job site, each one of the electricians/mechanics had their own personal padlock that they would put on the lock-out/breaker handle on the control panel while they were working on a piece of equipment.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[moon161]

Quote (As the air in the lungs is absorbed, the CO2 concentration in the lungs rises)

CO2 is actually a respiratory stimulant whereas CO fixes to the hemoglobin...

Yes to both. When I had a COVID scare in may I was checking my 02 saturation often and noticed that my sedentary 02 saturation was as low as 96-97% but as soon as I moved around and produced some C02 that stimulated respiration and my 02 sat went right up to %99. It was neat to see what I had learned about in action.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Thanks... thought it was heavier... after itsmoked... not sure now. Lighter or heavier, it's location will trigger before it gets upstairs... plugging in could be a convienience?

Careful there.. if you have any HVAC equipment in your basement, you face the real possibility of CO being distributed around the upper floors for a looooooong time before it's detected at the ceiling level in the basement.

If you trust that the suction side of your HVAC system is sealed up perfectly, then no problem... but I wouldn't.

 

[racookpe1978]

"Locking down" the (relatively far away) school in fear of the Nitrogen leak is foolish: Getting the kids outside into fresh air IS the solution for nitrogen gas leaks. But that would require an emergency plan that the school administrators can understand and implement, and elementary school staff, principals, teachers, and their district level administrators have NO chemical nor safety training outside of "Hide in Place, Lock the Doors, and Call for Help."

Which, if the school were in danger of non-toxic gases, would kill the children locked in their classrooms.

 

[dik]

I'd always instructed our grandkids that if there was a lockdown at school (Code Red, here), they were to leave the facility immediately and come home... didn't care what the schools plans were; I advised the principal of this... More hazard on site...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik