Gainsville, GA cryogenic N2 release results in multiple fatalities 8

[stookeyfpe]

As tragic as this incident was, it was a completely preventable incident. I haven't taken the time to research the GA Fire Code but I know the state adopts the ICC International Fire Code which has specific requirements for indoor use of LN2 (liquid nitrogen) based on various Compressed Gas Association standards, which are adopted by reference in the IFC.

https://www.csb.gov/csb-deploying-to-fatal-incident-at-poultry-plant-outside-of-atlanta-ga/

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-m...on-in-gainesville/6BIXXUI5WNEOPAJRIBYRWVVWRQ/

 

[byrdj]

JohnRBaker (Mechanical)... each one of the electricians/mechanics had their own personal padlock that they would put on the lock-out/breaker handle on the control panel while they were working on a piece of equipment.

Of the hundreds of plants I worked, only ONE had such a policy. weirdest thing I ever encountered. all others, Lockout was controlled by worker's signiture (latter digital ID) and strickly administered by plant Operations with Managment oversite the one near-miss i remember was at the plant that allowed workers to place their own locks AND the most chaoctic return to service ever.
thus while it was assumed to be the safetest practice, but allowing multiple people to work indepentaly of each other was not safe

 

[dik]

Lockouts often have provision for several 'locks'... and I've seen people use their own... just for safety.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[RedSnake]

each one of the electricians/mechanics had their own personal padlock that they would put on the lock-out/breaker handle on the control panel while they were working on a piece of equipment

.

Seems like everyday work to me
You would not be let in at the factory if you did not agree to follow that rule.
All production people have padlocks also, to lock the saftety equipment gates, doors, light guards etc.

Me myself I got at least five padlocks , sometimes one isn't enough depending on the job.
But we usually have someone checking and keeping track of all the people and jobs when there is a lot going on at the same time.

Best Regards A


“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[JohnRBaker]

Yes, but the guys had to put their initials on the locks so that if someone really needed to either get inside a panel or to turn it ON, they would know who to track down to get them to remove their lock.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[RedSnake]

Off course name and telephone number, always

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[JohnRBaker]

Back then, no one had cell phones ;-)

But inside our own shop, we had an 'AutoCall' system. Now usually only supervisors and foremen were assigned an 'AutoCall' number. I never needed one as I spent most of my time, when not at my board, out in our lab, where you could actually hear people talk and where we had a phone and our secretary knew that this was one of the places to call when they were looking for me. But out on the shop floor, there were very few phones and the noise levels were always high, thus the 'AutoCall'. Now for people not familiar with this, it was a system where individuals in the shop, like I said, usually supervisors and foremen, were assigned a 'call' signal which would flash a set of lights set-up around the plant in different buildings. You'd have a code like 'four flashes' or 'two flashes - a pause - two more flashes', etc. These were very bright lights and you couldn't miss them unless you actually had your eyes closed. Anyway, the way it worked is if you needed to talk to someone in the shop, when you dialed their number it would trigger the 'AutoCall' and flash their signal, and when they saw their signal, they would find a phone and enter a unique code, and they would then be connected to whoever was trying to reach them. Now if an AutoCall was already active, you'd get a busy signal. Hey, it worked for us (note that this was back in the 60's and 70's).

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[RedSnake]

We hade that at the factory when I started to , I think the lamp is still up on the wall outside the workshop.
Can't recall seeing flashing though, it was round with four red lights and one in the middle
Then we got pagers and then some kind of internal com radio and then finally internal telephones .. and now we get everything

BR A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[bacon4life]

This study found CO diffused sufficiently fast such that it is OK to mount the CO detector at any height.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Statement from CSB Chairman 2/1/2021
On Ongoing Investigation into the Fatal Incident at Foundation Foods Facility in Gainesville, GA

https://www.csb.gov/statement-from-csb-chairman/

Among the facts now being stated "As mentioned on Saturday, some tools were located in the vicinity of the Line 4 immersion freezer. We have since learned that unplanned maintenance was being conducted on Line 4."

 

[JohnRBaker]

As I said on Saturday:

"With a system this new, I'm thinking of one of two possibilities. Either there was a problem with the installation and it took this long before whatever finally let loose. The other scenario is that perhaps the people charged with operating and/or maintaining the system had not been adequately trained or their unfamiliarity with the system led to someone making a serious mistake or miscalculation."

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[Latexman]

This is speculation on my part, but the equipment may have looked like:

Messer LN Spiral Freezer

Cutaway

Good Luck,
Latexman

 

[JohnRBaker]

Gee, that looks like the stuff I used to design, but ours went the other way, ovens for baking bread and rolls, and in our case, we actually WERE dealing with gas that would explode, although in bakeries, the biggest danger was dust explosions, as when handling flour or starch, as it was usually pumped pneumatically.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

Did that as a kid... dried cornstarch and put a little of it in a drinking straw, and blew the dust into a flame and it would flame/flash quite spectacularly.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[itsmoked]

WOW hard to get my head around that thing weighing 20 tons. Sheesh!

Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[FacEngrPE]

https://www.messer-us.com/food-freezing#poultry

a brochure on this page describes a line of "Messer Nitrogen Immersion-Spiral Freezer"
"The spiral stage range from compact to high-production 20’ x 20’ models."

Messer: Safety Guidelines for Working With Nitrogen

https://youtu.be/t9t6AZ8teAo?list=PL3zZofMok2ApUXhHqk0cltQ4NVUNrO_LT

This is a reasonably good video on the safety aspects of nitrogen. A huge disclaimer at the start of the video, that should key customers to the need to pay attention.

 

[dik]

Great video..

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[racookpe1978]

In a fairy-tale world, no one would ever do "unplanned maintenance" unsafely, much less break open a pressurized pipe and release a deadly gas towards his co-workers.
In the real world, the guilty worker probably was the only one to leave the room fast enough to escape alive.

 

[dik]

Could it be less costly to use untrained 'flunkies'?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Brian Malone]

I see a lot of speculation being tossed around by many on this forum that I previously considered to be careful analytical engineers. The statements about the tools in the vicinity of the equipment and intimating work being done by "untrained flunkies" and the possible abandoment of the work site by the worker causing the mishap are totally out of line speculation. We don't know enough info yet. The tools could have been the tools used by a trained maintenance worker - the "unplanned maintenance" could have been approved to proceed - unplanned does not necessarily mean unauthorized- possibly, the unplanned work was to address a system leak or failure that went critical as a crew was assessing the situation. We don't know if anyone abandoned anything. Possibly, those that died were heroically attempting shut down the situation to protect the facility and other workers. There is too much that is unknown for any armchair assessments to be made. The CBS investigation has not released anything more than a barebones situation description.

 

[dik]

stand corrected... thanks

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik