Gas Bottle

[engpes]

I am designing a gas bottle for welding that will be handling propane, oxygen, argon / CO2. I need to design the bottle to ASME VIII, Div 1.

My questions are:

1.) Does the ISO 9809 specification for "Gas Cylinders - Refillable Seamless Gas Cylinders" apply to this design?

2.) My main concern is what materials should be used for this application? Can regular carbon steel be used (SA-106B) and normalized SA-105 for couplings?

Thank you in advance.

 

[zeusfaber]

That's quite a diverse set of gases. What do you hope to gain from using the same cylinder design for all of them?

Propane, in particular has very different properties from the others - at room temperature and typical storage pressures, it's a liquid. Putting it into seamless cylinders feels like a bit extravagant.

A.

 

[LittleInch]

I have to ask why you're doing this when perfectly acceptable gas bottles exist for all these gases?

As to the spec - why don't you read it and find out?



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[engpes]

It is for a manifold that a client is building as an ASME audit vessel they want to be useful after.

As to the spec, it costs a few hundred bucks so uneasy looking for a little ensight before purchasing. Thanks.[pre][/pre]

 

[Duwe6]

Most Demonstration vessels are made from big-bore pipe [seamed or seamless] and SA105 fittings, including Pipe Caps for heads. Call it a Blowdown Drum, and call the contents "mixed hydrocarbons" or something else innocuous. Do not designate contents as acetylene; that requires 'moss' filler to prevent explosive polymerization, and a host of other requirements. "Keep it Simple"

 

[engpes]

Yes, but they want to use this after for acetylene. Is there a spec that references the moss fiber you mentioned? Thanks.

 

[racookpe1978]

No.

You CANNOT mix flammable gas systems with non-flammable. EVER.

the industry and OSHA standards require left-hand and right-hand threads for oxidizers and flammables for one, specifically BECAUSE they do not allow the gasses to even have the possibility of being mixed in the lines.

Acetylene tanks are filled to a low pressure with liquid acetylene into a matrix of fine metallic balls (not really a powder, but I have not felt the mix itself). The other gasses are high pressure, and must be kept pure, clean and dry. (How does the "boss" expect to purge and vent and keep the mixed gasses clean enough to use? )

NO company will provide you gases as a refill into anything but their compressed gas standardized and certified bottles. Most will not even refill (fill from the truck) into gas bottles owned and serviced by a different company due to liability.

The idea is unsafe. Unreliable. Foolish. And uneconomic.

 

[Duwe6]

"And uneconomic." Yep - - high probability of a BOOM!

Please have 'genius' client email his insurance provider; HELL NO is easier to read than to listen to on the phone.

 

[engpes]

Sorry. I wasn't clear. The bottles will handle these fuels speratly. Also I meant argon not acetylene in my last response.

4 individual bottles for each gas. Thanks.

 

[gtaw]

Stupid is as stupid does.

I would check your personal insurance policy to see that you are covered for errors and omissions. You are going to need it when you're named as a defendant in the legal proceedings resulting from the property damage and deaths due to the catastrophic explosion.

Best regards - Al

 

[LittleInch]

racookpes 5th para is the one you need to concentrate on. If no one will fill it then all of this is irrelevant.

These might be interesting for you - see GN 17 for the info you should be asked for.

http://www.bcga.co.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=20

Also need to check your own jurisdiction as to what is and isn't allowed for gas containers.

Many suppliers rent bottles or work on a tracking system for their own bottles.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[GenB]

In my opinion, if you are designing a vessel for an ASME review and if you do not know what you are designing, you will loose your review and by trying to save a few bucks you will be throwing away thousands. You should design something simple that you can handle.

 

[kingnero]

1.) Does the ISO 9809 specification for "Gas Cylinders - Refillable Seamless Gas Cylinders" apply to this design?

dpending on the size. this code is only valid upto 150l, with a clause that goes up to 500l.
Which are very small vessels.

Can regular carbon steel be used (SA-106B) and normalized SA-105 for couplings?

standard says:
Materials shall fall within one of the next categories:
- internationally recognized cylinder steels
- nationally recognized cylinder steels
- new cylinder steels resulting from technical progress

+ specific conditions.

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