Gen. Y: a rant 23

[HgTX]

I'm pretty sure this is not where engineering is going, but what do I know? Apparently it's where some workplaces are going.

I just heard another news program about the Gen Y'ers (those under 30, in the context of this particular story) and how spoiled they are--sorry, I mean how they need constant praise and reassurance.

Who the hell are these people? Where the hell are these people? Okay, one of them is my teenaged baby sister, who feels such a sense of entitlement that she thinks life is not worth living if she has to do anything she doesn't particularly enjoy. But for the most part, the group described is not deranged high-schoolers, in fact is not that much younger than I am, and none of the people in that age group who work in my office are like that, and neither of my siblings in that age group is like that.

And how do they get away with dictating terms when the economy, for most people, is still in the toilet and jobs are (as in an article cited in another thread in this very forum) disappearing left and right?

Makes me want to quit my job and go around the country smacking their little bottoms.

Hg

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[GregLocock]

I always find it amusing that people quote Darwinism is in favour of selfishness (not you SG) - the most succesful animals are very communal. Bees, bacteria, and termites and ants will be here long after we are.

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[prohammy]

Following from Greg's comment....

Survival of the fittest does not imply that the most physically dominant will survive.....likewise it is nothing to do with selfishness.

Adaption is the key, finding a niche in the chain of life and exploiting your assets over those that wish to usurp you. These are not just the characteristics of domination, they are the characteristics of success. The victors write the history books.

Kevin

“Insanity in individuals is something rare, but in groups, parties, nations and epochs it is the rule” Nietzsche

 

[csd72]

caaseopeia,

That article resolves the arguement:

1911 to 1924 was the Greatest Generation.

I will ask my grandmother if that is true!

Regards

csd

 

[rb1957]

that'd be apart from WW1, and the Spanish Influenza, and ...

 

[davidbeach]

I think she means those born between those years.

 

[csd72]

davidbeach,

Even better evidence, war and plague surviviors, survival of the fittest must have thinned out the ranks of the 'less great' and therefore made it the best generation on average.

csd

 

[2dye4]

Agree with Greg.
Its a mistake to assume unrestrained self interest will produce the most productive society. My theory is that the current trend toward total self interest as propagated by some of the ultra conservative personalities eventually leads to a reduction in the health of a society. The true answear as with most things human is balence. Neither socialism or capitalistic anarchy will produce success. Society must be a blend. I havent been able to muster much evidence to support this hypothesis except that early societies were communal and prospered. I would love to see the fantasy ultra conservitive society tested somewhere (not where I live) to see if it prospers. If so we can all join the fray, if not we get over this social darwinism nonsense once and for all.

 

[epoisses]

2dye4
This is a very well-known topic in economics, there's a wealth of arguments and counter-arguments if you're interested...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand

 

[csd72]

2dye4,

Australia and the UK are closer to this blend than the US - they have a lower crime rate, lower poverty rate e.t.c. e.t.c. although this type of society is expensive and requires higher taxes to be maintained.

csd

 

[projectEST]

It seems to me that through generations there is a repetitive cycle. The older generation feels that the new generation is needy and has fewer obstacles to succeed. Where as the boomers feel as if they paved the road for us. And I'm sure the gen. before the boomers would state the same issue.

I am quite possibly the youngest member on these forums. Born in 1987, seen more terror in this short lifetime than most people have seen their whole lives. Like regalia stated, I didn't send my friends to war, I didn't raise taxes, I didn't cause this failure in the social security system. Someone older than I decided for me.

You can complain that we need emotional support and we need things made easier, but I'm going to be the person that will fix or suffer from the problems you caused in my world.

1985-2000 was a great time of prosperity in America, lucky you.

On my first day of High School I was locked in a classroom because terrorists felt the need to cause harm to our country.

The world will go through a dramatic change in the next 10-15 years. Imagine your daily routine right now, remember it, it will be totally different in this short period of time. Fear took over our country, there is no strength in our country, ask me again, why do I need emotional support?

Joe
Project Engineer

 

[dcasto]

The more a society becomes democratic, the wose it will become. Given the choice to vote on everything, people will vote for themselves and hence vote for more freebies in life and once everybody is entitled to have everything nobody gets anything new or better because we can not mass produce 300 million new diamond watches we are entitled too because voted to have them. Could you imagine running a large company whereby all the workers voted on everything?

So GenY (as the conversation between Batman and the Joker goes), "you made me the way I am", "yeah, but you made me first".

The conservatives are NOT self interest types, they want the status quo (CONSERVATIVE) which means no more entitlements (In CA, the voters have decided that feeling transgendered is a birth defect and CA will pay for having a sex change operation!!). csd72 said it, more entitlements, more taxes and the less anyone really has.

Do you really think a society can get ahead with 35 hour work weeks, 8 weeks vacation and free medical? Hummm China is the fastest growing place and they have none of these. Is France's economy on fire? Compare the above to their society.

 

[csd72]

dcasto,

It depends whether the society values 'quality of life' or the almighty economy. The economy is a tool for society to prosper, not the other way around.

The french tend to value quality of life over all else, hence the 35 hour weeks and 5 weeks holidays. The american system is more pro business.

Each to their own.

csd

 

[HgTX]

Those who went through WWII as civilians in Europe don't seem to have come through that with a need for extra emotional support...

Hg

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[dcasto]

so, csd72, all generations place their values different, hence, each generation always does better than the rest because they end up where they wanted to be.

There is NO MEASUREMENT STANDARD so we all win. Yeah, from now on at the olympics, everyone gets a gold medal thats says "First Place for TRYING hard". I remember when the schools stopped giving place ribbons and went there too.

Lets all just go home and drink French wine and value that tooo......

 

[epoisses]

35 hours working weeks are out of fashion since Sarkozy... the motto is work more to gain more!

 

[PSE]

Recently recieved from a friend. It struck me as to how much (at least in the US), freedom has been given up over the years already. The younger generations do not know how much they have already lost as they are used to the current state of affairs.

Scenario: Jack pulls into school parking lot with rifle in gun rack.

1973 - Vice Principal comes over, takes a look at Jack's rifle, goes to his car and gets his own rifle to show Jack.

2006 - School goes into lockdown, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1973 - Crowd gathers Mark wins . Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail, nobody arrested, nobody expelled.

2006 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.

1973 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by Principal. Jeffrey sits still in class.

2006 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his father's car and his Dad gives him a whipping.

1973 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2006 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. Billy's sister is told by state psychologist that she remembers being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some headache medicine to school.

1973 - Mark shares headache medicine with Principal out on the smoking dock.

2006 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.

1973: Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.

2006: Pedro's cause is taken up by state progressive political party. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he can't speak English.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from the 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.

1973 - Ants die.

2006 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary, hugs him to comfort him.

1973 - In a short time Johnny feels better and goes on playing.

2006 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison.

All in the name of progress!

Enjoy your day.

 

[BigH]

PSE - like your scenarios. I remember (back in 1962) when we were in elementary school and two lads would start a fight over something now judged inane - but the rest of us would look at each other, pick two captains and divide into two teams and we'd all start fighting. Great fun. Teachers just smiled - it was just that way at that time.

By the way - I've looked up the Kipling quotation and it goes like:
"If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied."

 

[ewh]

Unfortunately you post is very accurate, PSE. Kids today will never experience many of the things we took for granted.

 

[HgTX]

The "good old days" are always gooder in some ways and badder in others. I agree that there is a whole lot of crap these days. But consider the following:

Johnny's dad is driving the family convertible. Johnny's mom is in the passenger seat with Johnny's baby sister Mary in her arms. Johnny is in the back seat. Johnny's dad swerves to avoid something, loses control of the car, and they crash.

1973: Seatbelts are still a new idea, and everyone is thrown from the car and dies.

2006: Thanks to those oppressive seat belt laws that take away personal freedom, everyone is buckled in, and the baby is in a carseat. They walk away.

Hg

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[csd72]

It is quite exaggerated, but in spirit it seems correct.

Too many lawyers in society, too many in congress.

I read a very good email once, titles "Remember Accidents" It starts off saying something like "Remember when, if you tripped over something in the street and you fell over, you just went home and got patched up, nobody got sued because it was nobodies fault it was just and accident..."

Rights should always be balanced by responsibilities, they are two sides of the same coin. Society has forgotten that.