Getting a MSME Without BSME? 1

[keithmregan]

I really want to go back to Drexel and get a Mechanical engineering degree. I have a BS in Audio engineering that incorporated the first two years of the mechanical engineering curriculum from Drexel.

I could go back and finish a BS MEM degree. I am looking into it, but as long as I am accepted and pass the GRE I may be able to get a MSME without the BSME(still not sure if this is allowed but I think it may be)



Questions are:
Over the next 5 years what do you think the job availability would be for someone with only a MS in Mechanical engineering?

Would they not be valued as much as someone with a BSME?

Would I be valued as much AT LEAST as a new BSME graduate?




A lot of the upper level BS classes are the same as the masters anyway. Not sure this is the path that I want to take, but am interested in finding out info. Thanks in advance.

 

[TheTick]

Many people cross disciplines when they get MS degrees. When I was in the Navy, many nuc officers got MSEE's after their BSME's.

I suppose you could inquire with Drexel. A bit more difficult than asking here, but probably more accurate.

Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

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-SolidWorks API VB programming help

 

[keithmregan]

so would I still be respected as at least as much as someone with a BS in Mechanical engineering?

What about job placement?

 

[KENAT]

If you were planning to work in an area of Mechanical Engineering that requires you to have PE then you may need the BS.

Not sure of the details but it's something like:

To get a PE you normally need an ABET accredited degree.

ABET will only accredit one level of degree from an institution, either the BS or MS.

As the BS is their bread and butter most schools only accredit their BS.

I MAY BE WRONG

However, I'd check it out. It's been mentioned in other threads before.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[TheTick]

I wouldn't recommend going into engineering for respect.

If you're going to switch disciplines, and you have the option to get an MS instead of another BS, get the MS.

Once you get past starting your first job, your body of work had best overshadow any BS degree. No one will care what you did for your BS if you're any good.

 

[zdas04]

KeithMRegan,
Respect comes from performance not credentials.

My undergraduate degree is a BSIM - Bachelor of Science Industrial Management. I had to take all the junior and senior level IE courses, but the first couple of years were hard into business courses (plus math, chem, etc.) instead of many of the lower level engineering courses. When I took my transcript to the University of Colorado ME department to see if I could get into the MSME program (remember, without an ABET approved undergraduate degree), they said I was deficient in fluid mechanics and controls and if I took those two undergraduate courses they would admit me as an MSME candidate. I took the make-up classes, passed the MS courses and graduated with an MSME. Four years later I sat for the FE exam and 4 years after that I sat for the PE in ME.

New Mexico and Colorado think I'm a fully qualified PE in Mechanical Engineering. Wyoming looked at my non-standard qualifications and said that I had inadequate Physics preparation (my undergraduate Physics requirement was waived because I showed them my non-classified Physics notebooks from Nuclear Power School and they thought the standard University Physics class would be a bit remedial, Univ of Colorado agreed, Wyoming disagreed).

I'm living proof that what you're trying to do can be done with less credentials than you have.

David

 

[keithmregan]

I guess respect wasnt exactly the right word. Valued would be a better word. I just wanted to make sure that being valued as much with a MS without a BS in mechanical engineering
Thetick pretty much answered my question tho. Any other opinons are welcomed and appreciated

Also, what about areas of specializaton? Is there more of a demand for Thermal and Fluid Sciences Area or Mechanics? I don't think that I am interested in specializing in controls.

Can someone possibly give me examples of the types of jobs that I could get in those two areas of specializations? I am leaning towards R & D jobs or maybe manufacturing.

 

[keithmregan]

and thanks for your response to david. I read that I may have to take a few makep courses.

 

[electricpete]

I believe ABET does not accredit MS programs, only BS programs.

So the path toward meeting requirements for PE are not as straightforward with MS as with MS. Although the requirements are complex (from my viewpoint) and many different ways to meet them. (for example David's comments).

An MS is 1 year full-time and a BS is 4 years full-time. So, if you manage to fulfill requirements for MSME without the BSME, I personally would think that you are obviously capable of handling higher level stuff and knoweldgeable within some specialized areas, but not necessarily having as broad a foundation as a candidate with BSME. (this is based on a generalized perception that undergraduate = broad and post-graduate = specialized).

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[TheTick]

abet.org lists MS programs among its accredited programs.

 

[electricpete]

Well, I guess you are right. From browsing through the list of accredidations, I see they are overwhelmingly BS's. very few MS's.

I looked at Georgia Tech which has a lot of graduate engineering programs including Electrical, Mechanical. They list their accredited programs as mostly BS. The only MS is Environmental - I don't think they offer any BS in that.
Aerospace Engineering (BS) [1936]
Biomedical Engineering (BS) [2005]
Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering (BS) [1938]
Civil Engineering (BS) [1936]
Civil Engineering-Regional Engineering (Savannah) (BS) [2003]
Computer Engineering (BS) [1991]
Computer Engineering-Regional Engineering (Savannah) (BS) [2003]
Electrical Engineering (BS) [1936]
Environmental Engineering (MS) [1962]
Industrial Engineering (BS) [1949]
Materials Science and Engineering (BS) [1942]
Mechanical Engineering (BS) [1936]
Nuclear and Radiological Engineering (BS) [1975]
Polymer and Fiber Engineering (BS) [1949]

So, as best I can tell, MS is only accredited if the school does not offer a BS in the same field.

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[KENAT]

Um, electricpete, didn't my post more or less cover that issue?

keithmregan, looks like you need to consider if you'd need PE at some point, if so having a BS seems like it will make it easier for you. However, just having the MS may not prevent it.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[electricpete]

Yes you did. I didn't see that, and initially I didn't think that ABET accredits MS. When I investigated, I came to the same conclusion as you. So I guess we can firm up the conclusion.

ABET will only accredit one level of degree from an institution, either the BS or MS.

As the BS is their bread and butter most schools only accredit their BS.

I MAY BE WRONG

Probably right.


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[keithmregan]

Is it possible that a school MAY have acredited the MS and BS?

What would not having a PE preclude me from doing?

 

[GregLocock]

See many other threads for that one.

In some jurisdictions/industries it will prevent you from calling yourself an engineer.

In others it will have no effect at all.

For instance if your field is acoustic engineering then it will have no practical effect except that you will not be able to advertise yourself as an Acoustic Engineer in some states, I see Dr Gary Sokolich just got pinged for that in Tx.



Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[KENAT]

Note that this varies by state but from what I understand (I'm from the UK originally so still don't get all of it) generally Engineering in the US falls into either exempt or non exempt.

Non exempt means that basically you need PE to call yourself an Engineer/market your services as an Engineer at least directly to the public. The most obvious non exempt area is construction or whatever the generic term is for Civil, Mechanical, Structural & Electrical… dealing with buildings, infrastructure and the like.

Exempt means you don't need the PE, it's something like because you'll be working for a company and they take the liability. Example sectors are Defense and Automotive.

Now that's not to say a PE wont be of use in exempt areas or that you cannot work at all in non-exempt areas without it but that’s the general distinction.

You say you’re mechanical, if you want to work in HVAC or other building services then at some point you’ll probably want to get your PE.

On the other hand if you want to work on machines of some description (be it vehicles or stationary tools etc.) then you are less likely to ever need it.

Don’t take my word for it, do some research of your own, especially in you State.


KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[GregLocock]

My point about acosutic engineer was that it is an exempt industry (well, tell me different, but designing ultrasonic loudspeakers doesn't sound like a PE sort of a job), yet he still got pinged for it.

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ShaggyPE]

I just did a quick lookup for California here:

http://www.pels.ca.gov/applicants/faq_eng.pdf

The gist in there regarding the PE license, a non-ABET accredited engineering degree will only give you 2 years of the required 6 years of experience. An ABET accredited degree nets you 4. An approved MS engineering degree will net you 5 of the 6 regardless of your BS being accredited or not. They define approved as being from a school that offers either ABET accredited BS or MS engineering degrees. I am not clear whether Drexel offers ABET accredited degrees. From the other posts my thought is no.

In general I would say a non-accredited degree will not prevent you from obtaining a PE, but it will force you to gain more work experience.

It is feasible in California to obtain a PE license without any education. If you obtain 3 years of engineering work experience and pass the EIT and then work for 6 years you are eligible to take the PE. If you pass that, you are a PE. I don't think California is unique in this aspect.

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional

 

[KENAT]

Greg, maybe that fell under 'marketing your services to the public" which you normally need PE for as I understand it.

It varies by state and I don't grasp all the intricacies.


KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[keithmregan]

"An approved MS engineering degree will net you 5 of the 6 regardless of your BS being accredited or not.They define approved as being from a school that offers either ABET accredited BS or MS engineering degrees."
_______________________________________________________________________________

ShaggyPE -

Are you saying that as long as a school offers ABET accredited BS engineering degrees the MS is "approved" as well?

I also realize you were speaking for California. I will most likely be in PA, NJ or DE.

Input from anyone else would also be very appreciated. Thanks for all the great advice so far!