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GM toolkits 2
- Thread starter ronman7
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1
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ok there are many benefits
one it is used to send files to gm
they have standards and the gm toolkit has features that make sure your part passes there standards.
it has a file checker which will check to make sure everything is on the correct layer
it also will create the layers for you in the begining of your part. ex solid model has to be on layer, and developmental things like lines,arcs,sheets,sketchs have to be on layer 6.
the dcs file log must be filled out, it is basically part information,pretty simple. it also has the current gm title blocks and tools to edit the title blocks.
the way you start ug by clicking the red ug icon is no longer used if you have the toolkit. now you click the tool kit and start ug thru the tool kit, this way it brings up the dcs file logs,and gmpdl.
how to create a part using gm toolkit
1. when you have named your part and are in modeling click the cat like icon to create the gm layers if you hover over this icon it is called dcs required catagories. click it and hit ok. now go to format/layer settings to see the gm layers.
2. create your part.gm likes if you use sketcher
3. when you are complete with your prt you need to do a examine geometry and a file check and fill out the dcs log
so first thing is to make sure your part is named as follows
test.mldes.0001. now go to the dcs file log icon and fill in the required information. now you save your part
now you will need to do 3 checks before you exit
1) go to tools/gmpdl 1-A/analysis/inquire select list objects by type, then select range of layers and put 1 and 1. this is going to tell you if you have anything on layer one that shouldnt be there, alot of time sketchs will be there even tho u cant see them, move them to layer 6 from this menu.
next go to analisys/examine geometry select your part and make sure it passes this test. you will most likely get a smoothness error thats ok thats just telling you u didnt radius or blend every edge.
now save if everything is ok
now go to your last check
dcs file checker-the icon looks like a peice of paper with a check mark. you can do a check and do not save just to see if it will pass. reminder once you do check and save
it sets a flag on the part do not save the part after you run the file checker. it will screw up the the flag. the part is already saved when u select check and save.
i hope this helps if you need any more info just ask.
designer gooroo
catia v5
unigraphics nx
pro-e wildfire
ideas v10
autocad 2004
one it is used to send files to gm
they have standards and the gm toolkit has features that make sure your part passes there standards.
it has a file checker which will check to make sure everything is on the correct layer
it also will create the layers for you in the begining of your part. ex solid model has to be on layer, and developmental things like lines,arcs,sheets,sketchs have to be on layer 6.
the dcs file log must be filled out, it is basically part information,pretty simple. it also has the current gm title blocks and tools to edit the title blocks.
the way you start ug by clicking the red ug icon is no longer used if you have the toolkit. now you click the tool kit and start ug thru the tool kit, this way it brings up the dcs file logs,and gmpdl.
how to create a part using gm toolkit
1. when you have named your part and are in modeling click the cat like icon to create the gm layers if you hover over this icon it is called dcs required catagories. click it and hit ok. now go to format/layer settings to see the gm layers.
2. create your part.gm likes if you use sketcher
3. when you are complete with your prt you need to do a examine geometry and a file check and fill out the dcs log
so first thing is to make sure your part is named as follows
test.mldes.0001. now go to the dcs file log icon and fill in the required information. now you save your part
now you will need to do 3 checks before you exit
1) go to tools/gmpdl 1-A/analysis/inquire select list objects by type, then select range of layers and put 1 and 1. this is going to tell you if you have anything on layer one that shouldnt be there, alot of time sketchs will be there even tho u cant see them, move them to layer 6 from this menu.
next go to analisys/examine geometry select your part and make sure it passes this test. you will most likely get a smoothness error thats ok thats just telling you u didnt radius or blend every edge.
now save if everything is ok
now go to your last check
dcs file checker-the icon looks like a peice of paper with a check mark. you can do a check and do not save just to see if it will pass. reminder once you do check and save
it sets a flag on the part do not save the part after you run the file checker. it will screw up the the flag. the part is already saved when u select check and save.
i hope this helps if you need any more info just ask.
designer gooroo
catia v5
unigraphics nx
pro-e wildfire
ideas v10
autocad 2004
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1
- #5
Your best bet is to go to establish a username & password & then go into the Engineering area & find a document named GM1825 & read it. That will get you started & explain all the requirements for math data.
The toolkit isn't necessarily used to SEND files, but rather a tool to assist you in making your math data compliant to GM's standards AND help you create drawing formats (borders) that also comply to GM's criteria for roll-sized & 11 x 17 drawings.
The steps schoryan gave will work, but I feel they are a bit excessive. I prefer using the steps below, but it really doesn't matter how you do it, just so that it gets done.
Create your part, naming the file according to GM standards (or save it at the end before doing any Toolkit functions) with all sketches, curves, sheet bodies & datums used to create the part on layer 6. Your solid model needs to be on layer 1. When finished, run the Required Categories program, followed by the DCS Organize File (which will create a faceted model on layer 1 but put it in a reference set so you can't see it). Fill out the File Log, perform Examine Geometry (per GM1825) & run the File Checker without setting the flag to see if your math file passes. If it does, run the File Checker again & make sure the flag is set. If it fails, the FC will output to a text window what is wrong.
Teamcenter Automotive Edition with an ANX line is what is actually used to send the math data to GM, not the Toolkit.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
The toolkit isn't necessarily used to SEND files, but rather a tool to assist you in making your math data compliant to GM's standards AND help you create drawing formats (borders) that also comply to GM's criteria for roll-sized & 11 x 17 drawings.
The steps schoryan gave will work, but I feel they are a bit excessive. I prefer using the steps below, but it really doesn't matter how you do it, just so that it gets done.
Create your part, naming the file according to GM standards (or save it at the end before doing any Toolkit functions) with all sketches, curves, sheet bodies & datums used to create the part on layer 6. Your solid model needs to be on layer 1. When finished, run the Required Categories program, followed by the DCS Organize File (which will create a faceted model on layer 1 but put it in a reference set so you can't see it). Fill out the File Log, perform Examine Geometry (per GM1825) & run the File Checker without setting the flag to see if your math file passes. If it does, run the File Checker again & make sure the flag is set. If it fails, the FC will output to a text window what is wrong.
Teamcenter Automotive Edition with an ANX line is what is actually used to send the math data to GM, not the Toolkit.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
01257864125
Mechanical
nkwheelguy: hello! I don't have access to because my company doesn't want of a DUN number!! Would it be possible for you to send me the document you were talking about!!
Let me know if you want my corporate mail!
Thanks in advance!
Mickaël
Let me know if you want my corporate mail!
Thanks in advance!
Mickaël
01257864125,
Due to the possibility of proprietary information existing in the documents, I cannot send them to you. I would really like to help you out, but seeing as how everything we post here is available to anyone at anytime, I don't want to break some obscure rule set by GM. I am sorry I couldn't be of more help.
If you are doing business with GM, I would strongly urge you to solve the DUNS number issue so you can have appropriate access to necessary information.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
Due to the possibility of proprietary information existing in the documents, I cannot send them to you. I would really like to help you out, but seeing as how everything we post here is available to anyone at anytime, I don't want to break some obscure rule set by GM. I am sorry I couldn't be of more help.
If you are doing business with GM, I would strongly urge you to solve the DUNS number issue so you can have appropriate access to necessary information.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
wheel guy how is your way different from mine?
i walked him thru the steps to create a part using the toolkit. i didnt crunch it down like u did.
i fully explained why and how.
u just abbreviated what i wrote.
one thing i did say wrong was that it was used to send files to gm, it is but you are also correct in that it is used to make your file gm compliant.
designer gooroo
catia v5
unigraphics nx
pro-e wildfire
ideas v10
autocad 2004
i walked him thru the steps to create a part using the toolkit. i didnt crunch it down like u did.
i fully explained why and how.
u just abbreviated what i wrote.
one thing i did say wrong was that it was used to send files to gm, it is but you are also correct in that it is used to make your file gm compliant.
designer gooroo
catia v5
unigraphics nx
pro-e wildfire
ideas v10
autocad 2004
Like I said in my post, your method works, you were just going about it in a different & what I felt was a longer route. (you did see that disclaimer right above the steps you're questioning, right?)
Also, as you stated yourself, you said some things that weren't exactly correct. So I clarified one of them. However, here were a few other things:
1. The Required Categories program creates categories, not layers.
2. GM doesn't specify in any of their DCS specs whether or not sketcher should be used over other methods, it only states that sketches & all other creation geometry go on layer 6. If they really liked sketcher that much, they wouldn't be doing all of their Class A surfacing in Alias.
3. You don't have to fill out the file logs or do anything to your part at any specific time. You can do it at the end if you wish.
4. You also failed to even mention anything about Organize File to create the facetd model on layer 1 and create the required reference sets.
5. You DON'T have to move objects from one layer to another using the Inquire utility...you can just create objects on layers they're supposed to be on to begin with or move them to the correct layer with normal UG tools.
6. No mention anything about what checks are required by the Examine Geometry, as there are only 5 checks that the UG part MUST pass which is why I referred to GM1825. (see GM1825 if you wish to confirm).
7. The File Log does contain information that is shown on a drawing, but it's not the ONLY way to edit information on the drawing. You can in fact show less information in a file log & more on a drawing if you wish.
I didn't wish to point everything out & make you feel like a less knowledgeable person. I was only giving an alternative method on how to use the Toolkit. The original poster seemed a bit new to it & I tried to make it as easy to understand as possible. Sure, some of what I posted was the same as yours..how else can I explain it?
You obviously agree that my way is shorter (faster) or else you wouldn't have called it abbreviated, right? But, if you way works for you, great...keep doing it that way. I'm certainly not going to publish my methods & get them copyrighted anytime soon, nor am I going to rally all Toolkit users to follow my methods only & seek to dominate the Toolkit world as a dictator.
Now, there's no need to argue about this or turn this into a contest of who knows what or who is faster than who. There are several ways to accomplish a common goal in UG and the Toolkit. The important thing is that we relayed information on to another user. It's our job to ensure that the information is accurate too.
Hope you understand.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
Also, as you stated yourself, you said some things that weren't exactly correct. So I clarified one of them. However, here were a few other things:
1. The Required Categories program creates categories, not layers.
2. GM doesn't specify in any of their DCS specs whether or not sketcher should be used over other methods, it only states that sketches & all other creation geometry go on layer 6. If they really liked sketcher that much, they wouldn't be doing all of their Class A surfacing in Alias.
3. You don't have to fill out the file logs or do anything to your part at any specific time. You can do it at the end if you wish.
4. You also failed to even mention anything about Organize File to create the facetd model on layer 1 and create the required reference sets.
5. You DON'T have to move objects from one layer to another using the Inquire utility...you can just create objects on layers they're supposed to be on to begin with or move them to the correct layer with normal UG tools.
6. No mention anything about what checks are required by the Examine Geometry, as there are only 5 checks that the UG part MUST pass which is why I referred to GM1825. (see GM1825 if you wish to confirm).
7. The File Log does contain information that is shown on a drawing, but it's not the ONLY way to edit information on the drawing. You can in fact show less information in a file log & more on a drawing if you wish.
I didn't wish to point everything out & make you feel like a less knowledgeable person. I was only giving an alternative method on how to use the Toolkit. The original poster seemed a bit new to it & I tried to make it as easy to understand as possible. Sure, some of what I posted was the same as yours..how else can I explain it?
You obviously agree that my way is shorter (faster) or else you wouldn't have called it abbreviated, right? But, if you way works for you, great...keep doing it that way. I'm certainly not going to publish my methods & get them copyrighted anytime soon, nor am I going to rally all Toolkit users to follow my methods only & seek to dominate the Toolkit world as a dictator.
Now, there's no need to argue about this or turn this into a contest of who knows what or who is faster than who. There are several ways to accomplish a common goal in UG and the Toolkit. The important thing is that we relayed information on to another user. It's our job to ensure that the information is accurate too.
Hope you understand.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
i wasnt saying your way was faster
i was saying you shortened up what i said
i went thru the steps and locations of where things are at.and small explainations of why.
and you are right he can do it at the end when the model is finished . except for creating what I call layers and you call them catagories, it is the same difference. as far as doing the inquire i feel it is a very usefull tool
when you use sketcher because it is not visible and there are others ways its just one of the ways i use.
also you are correct about gm not specifying using sketcher, but i have had engineers say its the way they want it. and for simple parts its the easiest way to modify.crap i did miss the organize file thing.lol
thats kinda helpfull.and for the examine geometry check you always set all checks even tho u only need 5, i did fail to include that buts its almost obvious.
next time ill make a video tutorial to better explain, i hate typing lol. plus i can voice over it. easier to watch and listen then to read sometimes espcially with the toolkit having so many functions.
and yeah i dont want to argue with you either. i hope we managed to provide enough info to get him thru what he needs.
what do you do in ug? alot of class a or sheetmetal? i do alot of sheetmetal and plastics and assemblies
designer gooroo
catia v4 & v5
unigraphics nx2
pro-e wildfire
ideas v10
autocad 2004
i was saying you shortened up what i said
i went thru the steps and locations of where things are at.and small explainations of why.
and you are right he can do it at the end when the model is finished . except for creating what I call layers and you call them catagories, it is the same difference. as far as doing the inquire i feel it is a very usefull tool
when you use sketcher because it is not visible and there are others ways its just one of the ways i use.
also you are correct about gm not specifying using sketcher, but i have had engineers say its the way they want it. and for simple parts its the easiest way to modify.crap i did miss the organize file thing.lol
thats kinda helpfull.and for the examine geometry check you always set all checks even tho u only need 5, i did fail to include that buts its almost obvious.
next time ill make a video tutorial to better explain, i hate typing lol. plus i can voice over it. easier to watch and listen then to read sometimes espcially with the toolkit having so many functions.
and yeah i dont want to argue with you either. i hope we managed to provide enough info to get him thru what he needs.
what do you do in ug? alot of class a or sheetmetal? i do alot of sheetmetal and plastics and assemblies
designer gooroo
catia v4 & v5
unigraphics nx2
pro-e wildfire
ideas v10
autocad 2004
Whatever...you see it your way, I see it mine regarding my response. I just don't wish to discuss it any longer as it's been driven in the ground.
I work with supposed Class A data from GM's design studio. I usually have to recreate Class A surfaces in UG & get those surfaces to sew into a solid, as I am rarely sent solid model data to begin with.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
I work with supposed Class A data from GM's design studio. I usually have to recreate Class A surfaces in UG & get those surfaces to sew into a solid, as I am rarely sent solid model data to begin with.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
Nk, I know your pain. I recently worked on a project that came from GM. None of the class A surface passed the examine geometry checks.
General Motors doesn't require you to work on Sketch. They want 'chunky method modeling'. What this means is, they want to see how you created the model. Use of curves over features is what they are looking for. Example, use a circle and extrusion over a boss feature.
Another thing they look for is on categories, if you use your own layers, you need to label the category with a _ and then the name of the category. Example, _pvc-cutout. It isn't require that all the creation data be put onto layer 6 as that can get very cluttered, very quickly. In fact, I know they don't want that. I have worked at GM facilities and my primary experience is with General Motors.
General Motors doesn't require you to work on Sketch. They want 'chunky method modeling'. What this means is, they want to see how you created the model. Use of curves over features is what they are looking for. Example, use a circle and extrusion over a boss feature.
Another thing they look for is on categories, if you use your own layers, you need to label the category with a _ and then the name of the category. Example, _pvc-cutout. It isn't require that all the creation data be put onto layer 6 as that can get very cluttered, very quickly. In fact, I know they don't want that. I have worked at GM facilities and my primary experience is with General Motors.
jackley,
To be honest, it doesn't matter what automotive maker supplies the surface data. If it comes from Alias, it's usually better to just recreate it in UG or whatever the target CAD system is. That in itself can be quite challenging, but with tools like UG's Shape Studio, there's a little less pain involved.
I realize that user defined categories exist, but rather than type out the entire contents of GM1825 & the GM UG Math Data Supplier Guide, I figured I'd just call it out & let whomever wants it go & get it on their own.
The ONLY time you can use layers other than 1-8 is when you use user-defined categories. BUT, nowhere in GM's supplier specs does it state that it is mandatory to use ANY layers other than the layers encompassed by the Required Categories program.
If you put all of your creation curves, sketches, sheets, etc. on layer 6 & sent in the math via Autoweb or Teamcenter ANX connection, your math would NOT be rejected by GM. The people at GM who use the math may not PREFER this type of layering be done, but it is allowable according to their standards.
My original intent was NOT to completely dissect GM's math requirements. It was only to clarify the minimum requirements or give a brief outline of the entire process. Should you wish to see it for yourself, please go to -> Engineering -> Global folder -> Product Design folder & download GM1825 and GM UG Math Data Supplier Guide & refer to those documents should you feel that I've made any inaccurate statements. What GM prefers & what they require are usually 2 different things. GM prefers that a supplier make a $100 wheel but sell it to them for $40. In the end, they get a $30 wheel for $40.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
To be honest, it doesn't matter what automotive maker supplies the surface data. If it comes from Alias, it's usually better to just recreate it in UG or whatever the target CAD system is. That in itself can be quite challenging, but with tools like UG's Shape Studio, there's a little less pain involved.
I realize that user defined categories exist, but rather than type out the entire contents of GM1825 & the GM UG Math Data Supplier Guide, I figured I'd just call it out & let whomever wants it go & get it on their own.
The ONLY time you can use layers other than 1-8 is when you use user-defined categories. BUT, nowhere in GM's supplier specs does it state that it is mandatory to use ANY layers other than the layers encompassed by the Required Categories program.
If you put all of your creation curves, sketches, sheets, etc. on layer 6 & sent in the math via Autoweb or Teamcenter ANX connection, your math would NOT be rejected by GM. The people at GM who use the math may not PREFER this type of layering be done, but it is allowable according to their standards.
My original intent was NOT to completely dissect GM's math requirements. It was only to clarify the minimum requirements or give a brief outline of the entire process. Should you wish to see it for yourself, please go to -> Engineering -> Global folder -> Product Design folder & download GM1825 and GM UG Math Data Supplier Guide & refer to those documents should you feel that I've made any inaccurate statements. What GM prefers & what they require are usually 2 different things. GM prefers that a supplier make a $100 wheel but sell it to them for $40. In the end, they get a $30 wheel for $40.
Tim Flater
Senior Designer
Enkei America, Inc.
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