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Gutter System - Design Table? 5

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btbulldog

btbulldog

Industrial
Jan 27, 2011
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We have a project that repeats quite often but the values for the job are always changing but the basics remain the same.

It is a U shaped channel that varies in length. The channel also tapers in depth. We make them out of sheet metal and then the joints get welded up in the field.
Let say we have two jobs...
First job
Length of channel is 60' long
Tapers from 24" deep to 6" deep over the entire length.
Second job
Length of channel 40' long
Tapers from 20" deep to 10" deep over the entire length.

As we make these in pieces we want them to be equal in length but no longer then 118" long
So First job would have 7 parts @ 102.857 in length.
Second job would have 5 parts @ 96.000 in length.

Im unsure if solidworks can generate an assembly for me with my parts varying in length, taper, count.

Any help on this one would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
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Am I correct to assume that even though the parts are equal length they are different since their beginning and ending tapers are not equal?
If that is correct, you could do it with a top down assembly model. and just have configs for each number of parts you need.
I would need to know a couple things though.
Maximum over all length
Maximum over all taper.
Maximum individual piece 118" ?
I will pack an go an example for you, once you upload that information

StrykerTECH Engineering Staff
Milwaukee, WI
 
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The over all length will vary. The longest one we have done so far as been about 150' long.
The maximum taper will probably be more then .500 per linear foot.
The one i have to do right now is around .125 per linear foot.
The maximum individual piece will be 118" long.
We want to keep the pieces for each line to be the same length and as long as possible without going over 118". We can get in pre sheared material due to the quantity of material. It is generally around 8" wide and made out of 20Ga S/St.

Thanks again.
 
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Here is the file.
I just through this together so it is in no way ready to go, but it give you a good idea of what I think you are looking for.
You probably want to put an equation in depending on what variables you want to control. I am guessing your end result will be a DXF and a drawing. So you would have to snap shot that. But that shouldn't be a big deal

StrykerTECH Engineering Staff
Milwaukee, WI
 
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Look at DriveWorksXpress as a very good starting point for what you are looking to accomplish. DriveWorks has a whole line of products to allow you to expand in the future if you desire.
Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
Certified DriveWorks AE
HP XW4300, 3.4g proc, 2.5g RAM, ATI Fire GL 3100
Dell M90, Core 2 Duo, 4g RAM, Nvidia Quadra FX2500M
Equus (custom), P4, 3.4g proc, 3g RAM, Nvidia Quadro FX3400
 
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I my opinion I would look into Design Tables and Equations. Drive Express is a good product, but any express package has many limitations. If you upgrade to more advanced versions (Solo or full driveworks) then every user has to have his/her seat to use the product to make changes. The use of a Design Table/Equations is part of SW and does not require all your SW users to buy an additional seat of 3rd party software, and I think a DT could do what you want if you set it up to.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP [pc2]
Berry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"
Click to expand...
faq731-376
 
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Although Design Tables and Top Down modelling will do the job, it will still require some manual work to produce the 2D shop drawings for the parts.
DriveWorksXpress will give you the drawings for each part, and although the drawings may require the scale to be modified and view positions moved at least it would give you a good start.
 
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How do you mean you can't get a drawing from the assembly and only Driveworks will give you the drawings for each part?

Driveworks does not really automatically do it for you. You have to have your templates setup in a way driveworks knows where to place the views and such. If you don't have your templates setup properly, then you will still have to manually setup drawings\Templates to utilize Driveworks.


If you use a DT - You can make a set up a set of Master Drawings that you can use every time you use the assembly. If your assembly is in-contexted, then you can change the assembly and the parts will update and so does the drawings and you have only to cosmetically clean up the drawings and print them off.

I setup a very large assembly (in-contexted) with a Design Table. The assembly was automated with the change of a few selections. Once the dimensions were accepted and the DT closed. The Assembly updated, clicked over to the drawing and the main assembly updated. Each part was sheet tab in the main assembly drawing and I just had to click through and clean up the dimensions. Most of the dimensions I had to clean up were only in the main assembly, the parts dimension locations rarly changed.

I think purchasing 3rd party software in this instance is kind of a waste, simply because this can be done inside of Solidworks for nothing.

Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP [pc2]
Berry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"
Click to expand...
faq731-376
 
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Where did I say you can't get a drawing??? Think you will find I said it will require some manual work to get the drawing. I.E. Save_as and update references!!

And what do YOU mean DriveWorks does not really automatically do it for you. Ofcourse it does, I use it all the time. Yes, I set my drawing template up, but I did it once (like you will need to do for your design table) and now get all drawings required without risking forgetting to change the references.

I need traceability of my drawings that were issued for each job, and with DriveWorksXpress doing the save_as, change references for me saves me a lot of time on it's own. Coupled with the fact that it is automatically changing dimensions, features, patterns, custom properties and replacing components in all of my assemblies as well!!!

No 3rd party software was purchased, I use DriveWorksXpress which is included in SolidWorks.
 
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How is sharing a SolidWorks file on a network (one user with open file at a time) any different than sharing a DriveWorksXpress project on a network (Once user at a time)?

Yes DriveWorksXpress has limitations compared to the other DriveWorks offerings but it is far more powerful then Design Tables and top down and it eliminates all the hassle of "File>Save As" that is required with using Design Tables and such for creating new data sets.

Design Tables/Top down=Hammer and hand saw for building

DriveWorksXpress=Air Nailer and Power Saw!

Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
Certified DriveWorks AE
 
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Well I disagree on the Design Table comments from both of you. Been using them for many years now and its easy to setup and use. If you can't use the File\Save as properly when using a Design Table aof an incontexted assembly, then your right, maybe you need to have a program do it for you.

Any new solution is always going to require setup of the certain things. Of course when you post the fact that "Driveworks does it for you" it's misleading, because that user expects it to just do it without them making any templates or setups. Yours does do it for you, because its already set up to. If you are going to post information like this in the future, be sure to point out the fact that you already have your system setup to do it automatically.

Of course using a Design Table also has to have a drawing already made, then its just a matter of updating the drawing after the DT and assembly is updated. The Master assembly\parts and Drawing is easily copied to a new filename\location and its just a matter of updating the DT, Close the DT, Save the assembly, click over to the Drawing and your done... I don't see how that is any harder than using Driveworks. I am using a userform to make this process far easier to understand.

Better yet Save the DT off as an excel sheet, remove the DT from the assembly. Open the Excel sheet and add the API codes that change the dimensions in the assembly, setup a Userform or textboxes in the worksheet and make an external spreadsheet change the dimensions in the assembly and then you don't have to worry about a DT all together.

Scott Baugh, CSWP [pc2]
Berry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"
Click to expand...
faq731-376
 
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Scott having worked with Design Tables in the early days I found it much much easier and the setup time to be much much less when using DriveworksXpress. If I were to start from scratch on a project. I even proved out the concept. A simple cabinet that could have one or two drawers, switch handle styles between 3 options and have a door or no door. It took me about 8 days to set that project up at that time. When I was done I still did not have a good method for making a detail print for each component of the cabinet and if I made a set of detail prints I had to go do a save as on each print so I could store a data set for each cabinet that was generated. That was about 20 something odd save as steps if I remember correctly. Was not a matter of doing it correctly but the amount of time it took to create a new set of 2D details when a new cabinet was spec'd....

That in comparison to the 2 days it took me to set it up in DriveWorksXpress and then all I had to do was enter the numbers and choose my handle style and click go and all my documents were generated. The added bonus of Xpress was it was very easy to give to another user as they didn't have to know anything but what they wanted to get the desired results. I could limit them to not go outside of our design limitations with two simple parameters.

Both of these systems did require some detail drawing "cleanup" but the 2 day to 8 day setup along with the approximately 2 hour new data set with all drawings cleaned up compared to on average half a day new data set using design tables was an easy sale on the DriveWorks decision...

I am having a very hard time seeing the benefit of the Design Table method having used both.

Best Regards

Cole M
CSWP, CSWST, CSWI, CPDM
Certified DriveWorks AE
 
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I too used Design Tables in the early days. I made a huge in-contexted assembly, set it up for Automation. After I completed everything needed to make a finished set of prints. The entire process take only a matter of minutes to get a full set of prints. The only slow part was waiting on the Computers back in the year 2000.

I have a new job at my new job and I am using a Design Table. I have to keep the data protected and unfortunately, one limitation to Xpress is that you cannot protect your data. (I confirmed this with Ian at SW World last week). I spoke with them about this project I am working on, even though it is incredible basic, Xpress has far to many limitations to perform at the level I need it to and with all the users that are going to have to access this file, I can't afford to buy a seat for every user. The other problem with using an Xpress program means it may not always be a part of the software in future releases... There have been a few that get removed from the software, so until its part of SW itself, I would not put all my faith into it.

I have used Driveworks express in the past myself when I worked for a VAR, but I didn't see any great benefit in something I could do in Excel or add API codes and make an external program from an Excel Spreadsheet and a SW file.

I agree to disagree... Regards,

Scott Baugh, CSWP [pc2]
Berry Plastics
Cad Admin\Design Engineer
"If it's not broke, Don't fix it!"
Click to expand...
faq731-376
 
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Hi Scott

With regard to your comment about protecting your data, I seem to recall you told me you buried your master file deep on your network so no-one could find it. If that is the level of protection you require then you can bury your DriveWorksXpress data so you have a backup in case someone maliciously corrupts your rules.
True rule protection is reserved for the products you do have to pay for.
Yes your product wasn't suited for DriveWorksXpress, but that does not mean it is not suited for everyone. From what I have read of the example in question I think DriveWorksXpress will do a fine job, without countless hours being spent only to find the limitations of design tables (Just create a part with 20+ configs in and see how big it gets, for one) and I am more than willing to give btbulldog any assistance required.

Just let me know.

Thanks

Ian
 
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Forgot to add that you do seem to contradict yourself.

On one hand you do not believe in 3rd party software, on the other you write your own custom code to achieve a basic level of automation. (So design tables\ In context does not get you all the way??)

The difference between the two is that one is fully supported by a reputable software company who has been involved with SolidWorks for 10 years. The other is by an engineer who could walk away from his job at any time and leave his previous employer with a headache.

Just a thought.

Ian
 
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Hi, btbulldog:

I did not see your typical "assemblies" so I do not know complexity of your "asemblies". It sounds your "assembly" is actually more of a part than an "assembly". If I were you, I would use a part for what you are trying to achieve.

You really do not need either DriveWorks or Design Table.

When you create your drawing documents, you should pay more attention to definitions of your products, rather than WIP (work in process) parts, i.e., you need to focus on design intents.

The comment below:

"As we make these in pieces we want them to be equal in length but no longer then 118" long"

seems to indicate that it is not an design intent of your products.

Best regards,

Alex
 
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Hey guys,

I still wasnt quite sure how to come up with what I wanted. I took an old flat pattern that i had in autocad and inserted and and added the bend lines.
I then made a design table with up to 12 different components on it. If i need more then i can modify the table to work but most of the time i think it will be around 4 to 9 different components.
I setup the design table on the part level and the assembly is more of a reference of the final assembly.
There are other parts that go to this assembly but this is the main hurdle i had.
Im sure i did some of the stuff the hard way but at least i got some results.


Thanks again!
 
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