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Heliogen Awarded Exclusive Right to Lease Brenda Solar Energy Zone for Green Hydrogen Production 2
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GregLocock
Automotive
This is the main piece of the puzzle
Usual problems with electrolysis are erosion of the (expensive)electrodes and to a lesser extent poisoning of the cat. The idea of using heat as well as electricity is attractive.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
Usual problems with electrolysis are erosion of the (expensive)electrodes and to a lesser extent poisoning of the cat. The idea of using heat as well as electricity is attractive.
Cheers
Greg Locock
New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
JoshPlumSE
Structural
I like the idea of this type of solar plant. I believe it's pretty similar (conceptually) to the Ivanpah plant on the way to Vegas.
While these energy from these plants can't completely replace fossil fuels, they are (IMO) a much better investment for the government to promote green energy than subsidizing solar panels or Teslas for rich people.
I didn't realize that they are also being used to produce Hydrogen. Interesting.
IM - I believe these plants aren't nearly as problematic for birds as wind turbines are. I might be wrong, but my belief is that the wind turbines are often located in the areas that birds prefer to fly / migrate (because of the wind assist).
I'd also think that there would be some warning as they approach the hot area that could clue them into turning away. With a wind turbine the first warning is when their beak goes through their skull.
While these energy from these plants can't completely replace fossil fuels, they are (IMO) a much better investment for the government to promote green energy than subsidizing solar panels or Teslas for rich people.
I didn't realize that they are also being used to produce Hydrogen. Interesting.
IM - I believe these plants aren't nearly as problematic for birds as wind turbines are. I might be wrong, but my belief is that the wind turbines are often located in the areas that birds prefer to fly / migrate (because of the wind assist).
I'd also think that there would be some warning as they approach the hot area that could clue them into turning away. With a wind turbine the first warning is when their beak goes through their skull.
"With a wind turbine the first warning is when their beak goes through their skull." ... beak ? nah, it is (like with the joke about the bug on your windscreen) when it's a$$ does.
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
Guest
With solar plants like this or wind turbines, location is key. The middle of a desert might be OK, although deserts are not as empty as we often think.
Ontario stupidly located many wind farms along a bird migration superhighway, the eastern coast of Lake Huron down to Windsor. The number of bird species crossing Lake Erie between Windsor and Hawk Cliff is massive. That said I'm not sure if highrise buildings in large cities don't actually kill more.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
Ontario stupidly located many wind farms along a bird migration superhighway, the eastern coast of Lake Huron down to Windsor. The number of bird species crossing Lake Erie between Windsor and Hawk Cliff is massive. That said I'm not sure if highrise buildings in large cities don't actually kill more.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
JPlumES said:
The solar plant operators have a nickname, "tracers".
The heat-bird issue is only going to be a problem as the multitude of reflected beams converge on the the tower. Probably something like 200 feet and closer. I bet a radar or optical system could be created that would detect and could resolve the trajectory of the avian interloper. With that information you use one of ~25 air cannons that launch 'puffs' to provide steering suggestions to boids otherwise on course to oblivion.
Keith Cress
kcress -
Keith Cress
kcress -
Has anyone investigated the use of Giant Plastic Owls attop the Solar Towers ? I am sure that these will work well..
(and they certainly will NOT look stupid or anything....Nope, nope, nope)
Plastic Owls will keep away most species of birds ....... and once the scarce remaining desert water has been turned into hydrogen, there will be no more bird problems !!
Does Brenda know about this ?
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
(and they certainly will NOT look stupid or anything....Nope, nope, nope)
Plastic Owls will keep away most species of birds ....... and once the scarce remaining desert water has been turned into hydrogen, there will be no more bird problems !!
Does Brenda know about this ?
MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer
I'd've thought an eagle kite (or drone) would work better than a "GPO".
Or possibly adding some really annoying sound generator to the blade tips ... no, wait, that might annoy the humans ...
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
Or possibly adding some really annoying sound generator to the blade tips ... no, wait, that might annoy the humans ...
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
EdStainless
Materials
And Solar I and II, a bunch of plants in North Africa built by the Spanish.
These plants don't run the temps of fossil fueled plants.
The typically use a salt mixture in the primary loop, and then maybe water in the next stage, with an organic used in the bottoming stage.
The condensers are usually all air cooled so thermal efficiency sucks, but they aren't paying for fuel so it works.
They are easier on birds that windmills. First there are fewer birds and secondly, they have a very narrow danger zone that birds can sense.
You do have to make noise to scare off any birds that decided to roost overnight on the nice warm tower.
There are usually doors in front of the furnace that are closed at night to prevent animals from getting in.
Keeping the mirrors clean is a major issue with these.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
These plants don't run the temps of fossil fueled plants.
The typically use a salt mixture in the primary loop, and then maybe water in the next stage, with an organic used in the bottoming stage.
The condensers are usually all air cooled so thermal efficiency sucks, but they aren't paying for fuel so it works.
They are easier on birds that windmills. First there are fewer birds and secondly, they have a very narrow danger zone that birds can sense.
You do have to make noise to scare off any birds that decided to roost overnight on the nice warm tower.
There are usually doors in front of the furnace that are closed at night to prevent animals from getting in.
Keeping the mirrors clean is a major issue with these.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
They tried plastic owls at the Osahawa Go Bus station... after a couple of years, they were covered in pidgeon sh*t, like everything else...
![[pipe]](/data/assets/smilies/pipe.gif "[pipe] [pipe]")
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
ah ! the 'shaw (I'm down the road, where that awful tunnel over the 401 is ... could it look any worse ??)
so what you want are "Hell's Angels" Owls ... owls covered with spiky metal adornments ...
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
so what you want are "Hell's Angels" Owls ... owls covered with spiky metal adornments ...
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
Those 'spikey metal things' work really well (stainless steel sharp wire spikes). I've used them on several buildings in downtown Toronto.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
rb1957 said:
Cheap Fix: Deer Whistles
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
That and glittery bangles work for a short while, until the birds figure out that the GPOs don't EVER attack.
One would hope that the radiated heat from 1500C generated at the tower would steer birds away from the literal "fryer".
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
JoshPlumSE
Structural
dik said:
Yes, maintenance costs for all kinds of solar (whether it be rooftop panels, or these types of reflective mirrors) is always going to be higher than for conventional gas turbine power. Same thing for wind.
That's one of the drawbacks. However, one thing that's nice about the Ivanpah plant is that it has the ability to run on conventional means (i.e. fossil fuels) when the sun isn't out or at night or such. That reduces it's carbon efficiency, but it does a good job of addressing the concept of "intermittency" while still being a pretty huge leap forward (in comparison to a conventional power plant).
I should acknowledge that Heliogen is a probably a good bit different than Ivanpah. Conceptually very similar. However, if I understand it correctly, Heliogen relies much more on automated computer systems for adjusting the position of the mirrors. Also, if I remember correctly, it's supposed to provide some power at night through some sort of stored heat system.
Either way, I like both concepts because they leverage a lot of existing technologies in a way that promises to be much cleaner (as far as carbon emissions are concern). It's a much "safer" and "incremental" improvement than waiting on something like fusion or unicorn farts to solve the problem.
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