Helpful/Friendly Senior Turned Over-friendly 22

[mizzjoey]

Hi everyone.

I kind of have an awkward situation right now. Don't know if I actually have a situation or I should just loosen up, in fact.

I'm close to one senior engineer from a previous job; he was very helpful when I was working with him previously and we're both working our postgraduate thesis at the same faculty on part time basis. So now I see him every weekend at the lab for discussion with our two lecturers. And of course we're in the same industry and him being very knowledgeable makes him a useful contact.

I used to be okay with him because he was sort of a big brother to me. He's about 15 yrs my senior, married and I'm on great terms with his lovely wife. But lately he's being a bit too friendly and eventhough I said no to his outing invitations all the time he just doesn't notice that he's making me uncomfortable. I doubt he's being like this on purpose; he's a bit on the geeky and socially-awkward side.

Say you're the senior engineer, how would you like to be gently explained that your junior would like you to stop asking her to hang out on weekends?

At least, I'd like him to stop asking me out for a swim everytime we finish lab... I told him every single time that I don't find the idea of looking at him in skimpy spandex particularly appealing, but he would just say that's because I haven't seen how good he looks in them.

Plus he's been asking me out for a movie lately, and the last time was half an hour ago in an email.

Maybe I should stop being a prude?
jo

 

[SomptingGuy]

@BigInch

I have to finish it before I die.

- Steve

 

[TheTick]

I wish - that - I knew what I know now
when I was younger

 

[jmw]

I think we can better quote Oscar Wilde:
"Youth is wasted on the young."

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[BigInch]

Good point, but couldn't somebody else finish it and go back and get you???

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25% to 50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities." - DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99.99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[KENAT]

Cass and others, do those types of approach really work?

I know a few people that have tried their versions on me and it hasn't really worked out how they planned. I also can think of a lot of Engineers that I can't imagine that approach working on.

It would probably work on my manager though so maybe I should take note.

mizzjoey, sometimes us men get caught up in being men and don't think with the organ designed to do the thinking. Also most of us are capable of acting in ways which we later come to regret. I'd say try and be honest, but without sugar coating it too much or he may not get the point.

Good luck. On the bright side your situation is a bit simpler than the one I found myself in with a 6'4" Transsexual contractor. There was no way I could think of to tell them I wasn’t interested and didn’t enjoy the flirting without coming across as some kind of bigot. On the other hand I had the option of just biting my tongue and waiting for the contract to finish in a few weeks.


KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[Unotec]

In my opinion Cass's type of approach works wonders in the political and politically correct sensitive worlds. They are actually appreciated. I think the lab world might require a little more direct approach.
Kenat, if you had tell him you enjoy hockey or rugby, he would have probably gotten the point. At least that's what said here, if you're not a hockey fan then you're...

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[KENAT]

I think Jane used to play Rugby (at least when still called Trevor), probably a lock forward, so telling them I enjoy it too may not have worked.;-)

In fact, they may have had a thing for Rugby players 'cause one of our IT guys played fairly seriously and Jane loved him.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[casseopeia]

KENAT,

There is no ONE strategy or technique that will work for every situation. For people like yourself who believe that mutually cooperative communication will not result in an adequate solution, you may refer your friends, coworkers and spouse to the WikiHow page on ‘How to Deal With Impossible People”

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[Unotec]

Well Kenat, if hshe was that big I trust you were wearing steel toed runners 'cause those rugby players can run pretty fast and are used to catch fairly heavy guys.

BTW, congrats Cass!! i'm pretty sure all those little stars help you on the way to the top this week

<<A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend
will be sitting beside you saying ” Damn that was fun!” - Unknown>>

 

[KENAT]

Cass (not entirely sure if your response was light hearted) I didn't mean to put down your approach, I was just wondering if you had actual experience of it working well rather than just it being what you'd been taught.

While not my natural instinct I try to keep an open mind on this kind of thing (part of a new years resolution a few years ago) and am willing to be persuaded.

I looked at the page and I'm not sure it really describes me, but then again I probably wouldn't would I.

http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-Impossible-People

mizzjoey, it's been a week, any luck?

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[HgTX]

Cass, it is NOT cool to accuse KENAT in so many words of personality disorder (or at least of being "impossible"--but look what "impossible" is a stand-in for on that page) just because he questions whether your seminar classroom methods would work in real life. Jeez. (The page, on the other hand, does offer some good coping techniques for someone facing a situation where adult communication will no longer work.)

I too find it hard to believe that your approach as stated would work on someone who is not big on sensitivity and introspection, and of course anyone who's being a problem of the kind we're discussing wouldn't be very big on sensitivity and introspection. VPL's recommendations seem a little more appropriate.

I also question some aspects of NVC as you describe it. I understand the positive aspects to giving someone a choice so they don't feel the need to fight like a trapped rat, but if doing so means offering options where no options should be offered (like the choice to continue the unacceptable behavior), then I just can't support that. It's certainly a tool to be reverted to under extreme duress (along "please don't kill me" lines), but otherwise can put out entirely wrong messages if used in the wrong situations. "I was wondering if maybe you could possibly respect my boundaries" is WAY too weak, and might make the speaker a more appealing target for certain predatory types (not that I'm saying the Senior in question is necessarily such a type).

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[TheTick]

I don't see that Cass called Ken impossible. She only referred him to a resource of info on how to deal with "impossible" people for whom mature communication is not an option.

 

[KENAT]

Well I'm pretty sure she called me Impossible, but hey, I dont think it's a secret 'round here that I have personality flaws.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[Drumchaser]

Back to the O P

Our company's (mandatory) training was titled "Sexual Harassment in the Workplace." And it entailed a little more smack down. After repeated infractions "things" should be rolled up to your immediate supv.

I would like to hear the Senior Engineer's side of this Snafu. Not that I approve of his alleged actions or proposed frolicking in any way. Would just like to hear the "rest of the story."

 

[SomptingGuy]

There is a big difference between "Sexual Harassment" and (unfortunate) genuine infatuation at work. I've seen the latter first hand and it can get very ugly. No amount of "training" is ever going to prevent it.

- Steve

 

[mizzjoey]

I second Steve (SomptingGuy) on this.

I have seen sexual harassment happen in my previous workplace, and the equally bigoted manager in charge (related to the perpetrator, no surprise!) simply let things slide until the victim resigned with 24-hours notice. There is a difference btwn out there harassing someone and just being blind to hints.

However I do not flatter myself to be the object of this senior's affection. I have noticed that he really has an awkward style of interacting with others, and sometimes fails to recognize the limits of acceptable teasing/jokes/outside discussion at the workplace (like when the other party has had enough and he should move on to other topics, or jokes that fail and do not need to be repeated). One (male) senior I know even blocked this guy's emails.

My mentor is a rather nice and uncomplicated person, but my problem is letting him know that his way 'being buddy-buddy' with me is making me uncomfortable, without losing the otherwise okay professional relationsip.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Act now. Situations like this do not "heal" or "go away".

The incident I referred to ended with the guy in question disappearing one afternoon, found hanging at his home (in time, thankfully). Nobody talks about it at work.

- Steve

 

[Drumchaser]

"awkward style, fails to recognize the limits of acceptable teasing/jokes/outside discussion"
vs.
"rather nice and uncomplicated person"

I'm confused (normal), is the guy a freak or just being clingy?
Sounds like this amigo has deep seated problems. (mom issues)

At the risk of losing a contact/"friend", I suggest staying away from this guy regardless of what the benefits are. Not healthy.

I do not think it would be wise for you to be alone with him, especially in swimming attire.

 

[jmw]

We opened with:
"he's a bit on the geeky and socially-awkward side"

But now we have moved to:
"....he really has an awkward style of interacting with others, and sometimes fails to recognize the limits of acceptable teasing/jokes/outside discussion at the workplace"

That's the really interesting thing about these threads, you start with one set of perceptions, respond and then something new bubbles to the surface which changes the situation.

We are apparently no longer dealing with a guy who has become somewhat infatuated with you and who might, just might, respond to the approaches Cass and Pat suggest; we are now looking a guy with more extensive problems; problems that might mean he is just a damned nuisance and just maybe he is something more serious than that.

So when you open with:
"Don't know if I actually have a situation or I should just loosen up, in fact."
I think you really know you have a situation of some kind and, moreover, one where the advise from Cass and Pat, which might just have worked with a semi-rational male, probably have no chance at all.

Of course the workplace has always been a bit of a zoo but it seems to me there are some critters grazing in the cubicles that ought not to be allowed to roam so freely.

The problem is to know which are harmless nerds and which are the rare ones that need the hockey mask and sack barrow treatment (would Hannibal really not want to eat Agent Starling?).

Unfortunately with people we don't have any nice clues to tell the bad ones apart from the annoying ones; nature is sometimes more helpful with other critters: a king snake or a coral snake?
"Red touch yellow, kill a fellow
Red touch black, venom lack."

Some more practical advise might be to get very good at not being left alone with him at any time and use the buddy system with some one sympathetic to the issues. Maybe you need to review the value of these lab meetings... can you get what you need some other way? some other lab?
Don't take phone calls, have an answering machine to screen calls and don't reply to any emails which are not exclusively work related or "acceptable" and adopt a more formal style, use the email signature options and in fact, start to respond as you would to a stranger.

You routinely lock up your house and your car.
That doesn't make you paranoid.
Leaving your car unlocked or with parcels in plain view on the seat is asking for trouble.

On the basis of what we have here we have no way to know if this is just a problem of social ineptitude that needs some kind of forceful handling, which it probably is, or is it one of those rare cases where the guy is on the edge of becoming something more alarming.
The way to find out isn't by becoming a victim.

I think some more practical/informed advise is now called for which I have no idea how to give.
Who could you talk to? one of the help groups out there?





JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TenPenny]

KENAT, if she called you 'impossible', that could mean several things. Calling you 'impossible', with a smile, and a light swat on the back or chest probably means that she's flirting with you. Calling you 'impossible' while shaking her head and walking away probably means she disagrees with your opinion, but is still friendly and respectful. Calling you 'impossible' while staring you in the face and yelling probably means an insult.

In the spirit of this thread, we'll have to ask for more information in order to figure out what the intent was.
Or, we could just be smart, and let it drop....