Here's a new one for the times: 50

[airspeed]

The company I work for has asked me to design an HVAC system for an indoor cannabis growing facility. The money involved is blinding everyone associated to the fact that the Federal Government still considers it illegal. The clients are very colorful to say the least. The guy financing the project is a rich kid who has done time for trafficking a controlled substance in the past. The manager is a former car salesman. I want to run away screaming! How do you end up in this situation you ask? I work for an A. e. firm! Please give me some ammunition so I can tell these people that I just want to support my family by working on reputable projects.

 

[beej67]

I would work for a beer company.
I would work for a tobacco company.
I would work for a liquor distillery.
I would work for a pharmaceutical company.
I would work for a firearms manufacturer.
I would work for a casino.

I would not work for any of these companies if I thought there was some reason the project might get shut down by the fickle whims of the government, and leave me with outstanding invoices and no way to collect on them.

Therefore, I would work for a marijuana company in Colorado or Washington State, but not in Washington DC or California.


Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[ornerynorsk]

If one is conscientiously objecting to something, the money shouldn't even be a factor. If it is, then your principles are flawed, or at least not as sound as what you have lead yourself to believe. How can say "I don't believe in that, unless the money is really good" ?!?!

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[hokie66]

TomDOT,
I agree that abuse of alcohol causes a tremendous level of harm, and doubtless more than marijuana. But at least in western societies where alcohol is legal and marijuana is illegal, the use of alcohol must be many times that of marijuana, I think. Drink driving is illegal, and it is one of the abuses of alcohol which cause harm. Alcohol also has social benefits, while at least in my opinion, marijuana does not. Experimentation with marijuana leads to experimentation with other drugs like ice, and that is a terrible downhill path. I am just not going to support illegality...not sure where the OP is located, so I don't know the actual legality or otherwise, but he did indicate that he considered the proposed project to be disreputable.

 

[TomDOT]

Hokie,
Thanks for clarifying. I agree about not supporting (or being involved in) illegality.

I don't buy the "slippery slope" where marijuana is a gateway drug, except possibly where it is seen as disproving the message of the War on Drugs, since marijuana it is generally harmless (or less harmful than tobacco, anyway). I can see where the attitude of "the authorities lied about marijuana, so they are probably lying about all the drugs" can be a problem or "gateway" - I don't think it is anything inherent in marijuana.

On a personal note, I do drink on occasion, don't smoke, and have never tried marijuana or other illegal drugs. My brother is an addict - but it's alcohol and prescription meds. I apparently ended up with a very different biochemistry, as prescription narcotics do less for me than ibuprofin - discovered that after my jaw surgery.

 

[stevenal]

If we hold safety to be paramount, where would we be if all of us refused? A non-code compliant DIY installation will not enhance safety at all. And if this is medical grow facility (also federally illegal), improper HVAC could lead to crop failure and insufficient medicine for those who depend on it. If the money is so good, get it up front. I hear banking can be an issue.

 

[EngineeringEric]

Stvenal is correct, i know that banks and credit cards will not touch weed-money. This is a problem in Colorado and has spured many new industries. A good 'Vice' documentary on it. But back to the discussion. If the operation is legal but state standards i do not think it is a problem to design. Maybe you can design and look at it as an internal green house, not as a "Weed Growing Facility".

I'd ask the lawyers, if they are comfortable then ask your gut as you will be the one who has to sleep at night.

 

[ornerynorsk]

Straying from the thread of the OP . . . RE the slippery slope and gateway argument: I don't think it needs to be a gateway, Mary Jane is bad enough in its own rite. Stoners and habitual users do not tend to be the epitome of productive and clear thinking citizens or employees. I've had to supervise several over the course of my career, and the most common sense solution at the end of the day was to weed them out, no pun intended. Could care less if some consider it discrimination, I won't have anyone under the influence of anything on my plant floor. That includes the time it takes for residual effect to wear off.

While alcohol and tobacco have their problems, MJ is a double whammy that gets your brain and cardio/pulmonary with a single regimen. As an aside I find it somewhat humorous and interesting that so-called medical users are mostly against the concept of taking extracted compounds orally, they prefer the smoked version. Long term, I do not believe perceived benefits of these medical legislations are going to outweigh negative effect. Culturally, it DOES become a gateway in the sense that, for parents and educators, it has simply moved a standard-point one increment toward the area in which we do not want our children (and society) to venture. MJ today, hash tomorrow, opiates next week. Hey, what the hell, lets legalize meth and PCP while we're at it.

Rant over, back to the thread of the OP, in the end, no one can mandate or impose morality or ones interpretation of it, the choice comes from within. Be true to thyself. (Bill S. in Hamlet c.1599)

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[dwallace1971]

Eric, don't lawyers sleep at night, too?

"On the human scale, the laws of Newtonian Physics are non-negotiable"

 

[EngineeringEric]

DWallace, Vampires don't sleep at night!

 

[beej67]

Marijuana is only a gateway drug because of it's illegality.

Imagine if we lived during prohibition. You want a bottle of wine for Thanksgiving dinner, but in order to buy it, you have to go to a drug dealer since it's illegal and not sold in stores. The drug dealer says, "Why yes, I can sell you a bottle of wine. I can also get you some cocaine to help focus your preparations, and some opium to help relax once all those pesky relatives are out of your house." In this scenario, use of cocaine and opium would go up relative to where it is now, and everyone would call wine a 'gateway drug.'

Likewise, there's the issue of relative drug strength. This scenario plays out every day in the United States:

1) Teen drinks beer. Teen gets drunk. Teen feels like crap the next day. Teen is fine the day after that. Teen is not instantly addicted to beer.

2) Teen smokes marijuana. Teen gets high. Teen feels quite a bit better the next day than he did after drinking. Teen is not instantly addicted to marijuana.

3) Teen deduces that the drug laws of the United States are arbitrarily drawn and not from any sort of common sense approach, which is true. Teen then infers that perhaps other drugs aren't any worse for him than beer or marijuana.

4) Teen smokes meth. (details clipped out) Teen dies 3 years later in a gutter.

Yes, there are very bad drugs out there. Yes they should stay illegal. Yes we should continue to prevent teens from trying them, because the very bad drugs remove your ability to make your own decisions. Marijuana is not one of those drugs, and its illegality is what creates the gateway to those drugs.

All that said, I wouldn't touch a marijuana client in California or Washington DC, even though marijuana is legal there, because the fickle whims of government have not settled down there yet. Medicinal growers in CA are still being busted by the feds, leaving all their investors and other business relations swinging in the breeze. The same is not true of Washington state or Colorado, though, because their state governments have been much more focused on developing codes and ordinances that work, and that blend well with the demands of the federal authorities.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[TenPenny]

First, it's marijuana, next, it's nipples on television.

Blood, guts, and gore, they're ok though.

Weird society, isn't it?

 

[IRstuff]

The US is rooted in Puritanism, still. Breastfeeding is now considered "disgusting."

TTFN
faq731-376

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[urgross]

Breast feeding isn't disgusting, it's rude-unless you bring enough for everyone.

Gateway drug? What century are you from?

 

[btrueblood]

"Breastfeeding is now considered "disgusting.""

By some, perhaps even "most". Silly, in that the attitude seems to have developed only after the invention and marketing of bottles and formula. It has been legislated to not be considered so (not "indecent exposure") in Wash. state. According to Wikipedia, similar legislation has passed "in all 50 states".

 

[msquared48]

"Breastfeeding is now considered "disgusting.""

The notion only helps big business, not the kids. Just follow the money.

Mike McCann, PE, SE

 

[GregLocock]

As Auberon Waugh wrote, he quite liked public breastfeeding, because that way you get to admire a woman's breasts without having to buy her dinner first.

He was a very funny writer.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[dik]

MacGyvers: about 30 years back I did a 'secure' clubhouse for a biker group...

Dik

 

[moltenmetal]

If the product is legal in your state, do the work on a retainer basis to ensure you get paid. Unwilling to pay a retainer? B-bye.

If the product is illegal, you can't aid or abet an illegal activity, even if it is an illegal activity which will potentially be legal next year.

As to personal morality, and what kind of firm you would or would not work for, that's a personal question rather than a legal one. If you feel that your work will put you in a position of having to carry out work contrary to your personal moral code, that's something you need to discuss with your employer immediately. Just remember JB Shaw's famous quote about convincing a woman to sleep with him for 100,000 pounds, then taking offense at being asked if she'd do it for 50 pence. She retorted, "What kind of woman do you think I am?". He replied, "We've already established that- we're just haggling over the price.". So all of us working for a living are prostitutes to some degree- but each of us determines what acts for what price are beneath our dignity...

Personally I think that deliberately inhaling pyrolysis vapour is insane from a health perspective. Doesn't matter what plant matter you're pyrolysing or how it makes you feel- the ultimate result is a greatly increased risk of cancer, lung and heart disease etc.

As to the illegality of drugs: you can get heroin in prison. Prohibition cannot possibly work in an open society if it can't even be made to work effectively in a prison! All these substances need to be made legally available, illegal to consume in public(fines and confiscation rather than imprisonment), regulated and taxed, with 100% of the tax revenue going into harm reduction and instant availability, no waiting period, addiction cessation programs. The harm the drugs themselves do is tragic, but the harm done by the illegal activity funded by their consumption (and to fund the consumption of addicts) is also substantial- and nearly 100% preventable.

 

[Tunalover]

Porn is legal. Would you do a project for a film studio that you know does only porn? If pot is legal, then, would you do a project for a firm that raises pot and kills the brain cells and damages the health of thousands of people? Cigarettes? Alcohol? You have to draw the line somewhere and where you draw it is up to you!


Tunalover

 

[ornerynorsk]

I'm not sure who considers breastfeeding anywhere to be disgusting. Socially awkward, perhaps. I quite like Greg's quote!

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.