Hertz selling off EVs due to higher repair costs 3

[Brian Malone]

Interestingly, Hertz is dropping its initial embrace of EV tech and selling off its Teslas, and other EVs. Stating the higher repair costs for collision repair has limited the ability to make EVs work within its business.

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...rtz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

My basic understanding is Tesla regular yearly maintenance is a little higher than for a mid-market to high-end luxury vehicles but it is positioned as a luxury car line so that is not surprising. Is the higher collision repair cost being driven by:
1. Exclusive maintenance and service arrangements with auto service providers?
2. Exclusive / limited supply of replacement parts?
3. Intrinsic higher cost of replacement parts?

I don't yet have an EV but I have considered the Model Y pretty strongly. Seeing the softening of the EV sales may be a good thing for me as a fence-sitter. The plug-in hybrids make more sense for my general use but the Tesla Y really embodies a lot items I like: interior space, simplicity of design, potential for speed (if needed/desired), open glass area for visibility, Supercharger Network etc.

 

[gruntguru]

Probably 2 and 3 plus - battery damage is difficult to assess and is often "written off" despite no apparent damage after a high G collision.

je suis charlie

 

[GregLocock]

I see a lot of hmm, stonewalling, over the cost of insurance for EVs by the believers. My new Everest diesel is $1300 a year fully comp $800 excess.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[Brian Malone]

Yes - I forgot about the battery possibly sustaining hidden damage. The cost of battery replacement is substantial. Whereas, for for non-EV, the ability to evaluate for potential engine / transmission damage is more straightforward and understood.

I am surprised to see the Model Y battery is predicted to be less than the cost of the other Tesla model batteries, (27٪ - 39٪ of other models).

I have seen some YouTube videos extolling how Tesla has really pushed the vertical integration of their battery production - amazing tech and business model. Maybe the Model Y battery is benefitting?

https://insurify.com/car-insurance/knowledge/tesla-battery-replacement-cost/

 

[Brian Malone]

Hmmm - the higher cost of insurance for a Tesla probably makes any costs savings for fuel compared to ICE vehicle a wash. For me that is not a big deal. I kind of just dig the Tesla Y tech and possibly any of similar size vehicles, Toyota BZ4X, etc. The cost premium on any of the EVs is more why I just keep buying gas-powered vehicles. They do what I need and fit my preferred budget. Looks like Hertz is making a similar decision.

 

[BrianPetersen]

Insurance on my Bolt is same-ballpark as insurance on any other similar-category car. (Trax, Encore, Escape, etc) High insurance rates (due to high repair costs, due to restricted parts availability and restrictions on who can work on the car) seem to be a Tesla thing.

But ... Myself, as an EV owner, would not want to go to a strange place, and rent an EV where I'm not familiar with nearby EV recharging infrastructure. It's not there yet. When there are charging stations everywhere, without uncertainty about whether they work or not, or uncertainty whether I have the requisite means of starting and paying for a charge, then that'll change.

 

[LionelHutz]

I have a family member who had to buy a Tesla because they were so cool. They hit something on the road 4-5 months after purchase and then the car sat at a shop almost 6 months waiting for a piece to complete the repairs. Tesla was still manufacturing cars the whole time, so they have chosen to screw over existing owners in favor of producing new cars.

 

[gruntguru]

Swings and roundabouts. Would Tesla tech and innovation be where it is now if the company had different priorities?

The buyer is the ultimate judge.


je suis charlie

 

[IRstuff]

One issue is that many states have arcane car dealership regulations that Tesla eschewed, leaving them with no dealership repair networks.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[drwebb]

"Expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter," Well they must be hugely expensive to repair because weren't we told all the fancy pants driver's aids on such cars would make them markedly less likely to be involved in accidents in the first place? So to the extent what Hertz says is true, the economic costs outweigh the benefits, at least for rental fleets.

 

[gruntguru]

Do EVs have more driver's aids than combustion cars of the same era?

je suis charlie

 

[IRstuff]

weren't we told all the fancy pants driver's aids on such cars would make them markedly less likely to be involved in accidents in the first place?

You still believe Elon? I got a bridge you might be interested in buying ;-)

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[GregLocock]

A proper statistical analysis of crash rates for Tesla vs other cars, once it corrected for confounding factors, found that any safety advantages for Tesla's driver aids were within the noise. I did post a link for that study in the disasters forum.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[drwebb]

Last time I picked up my IC Hertz they had as many Volvo/Polestars as Teslas on their chargers (and plenty of both, btw), so I doubt the real issues driving Hertz's sell-off are unique to the loveitorhateit OEM.

For my part I am electric curious, but travel is stressful enough without piling range anxiety into the mix. So my biased suspicion is that customer acceptance played a bigger role. But that suggests a management error on Hertz's part, whereas they can claim a credit for decisively controlling costs so that's the bullet point they're emphasizing.

 

[moon161]

I don't think it's because the EV's are electric, but because the cars are made by companies new to the auto body business.

https://www.theautopian.com/heres-w...-cost-42000-after-just-a-minor-fender-bender/

 

[dik]

It might be that they will have to revert to EVs in the future. I'm not so confident that internal combustion engines will continue.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[3DDave]

They may be new to the autobody business, but they are also leaders in the trend to make consumer goods fail in unrecoverable ways. In a battery pack, one of 8,000 cells fails. The pack is not rebuildable and the cell not replaceable. Kiss $20,000 goodbye because a $1 cell was made improperly. Why not make the entire car body the same way?

It won't be long before makers incorporate encrypted communications in every component they can - building encryption into wiper motors with epoxy embedded controllers so that after the minimum time to supply spares is up, an entire car might be scrapped over a wiper issue due to lack of the programming tools to create a properly encrypted replacement.

 

[gruntguru]

In a battery pack, one of 8,000 cells fails. The pack is not rebuildable and the cell not replaceable. Kiss $20,000 goodbye because a $1 cell was made improperly.

Sounds a bit pessimistic.
1. If the cell was made improperly, the failure would likely occur in the (usually large) warranty period.
2. There are measures incorporated in battery packs to mitigate against the failure of a single cell. (I have heard this from experts although not one myself)

je suis charlie

 

[BrianPetersen]

Also, most of them that aren't Tesla are designed to allow small groups of cells to be replaced separately from the entire battery pack. The battery enclosure in a Bolt contains 10 sub-modules inside it. There are videos online showing how it comes apart and goes together. Nissan Leaf batteries allow replacement of cells.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hudv7DVqYQ

 

[TugboatEng]

Do the manufacturers provide these modules for purchase?