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Hi ALL, can a FPBW in plate also 10
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david339933
Industrial
Full penetration butt weld....not a stretch IM for a welding forum.
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Guest
david,
The proliferation of homemade acronyms, I suspect driven by the desperate need to stand out from the hordes on linkedin, is a plague. And if a person is looking for gratis assistance, they should make the effort to spell out the question sans jargon and acronyms.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
The proliferation of homemade acronyms, I suspect driven by the desperate need to stand out from the hordes on linkedin, is a plague. And if a person is looking for gratis assistance, they should make the effort to spell out the question sans jargon and acronyms.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
I'd hardly call it homemade, it's quite commonly used all around the world along with FSBW (Full Strength). The exception I'm aware of is America where they seem to refer to the same thing as Complete Penetration. All the same thing.
Typically, in this part of the world at least (Australasia), a FPBW and FW would require separate qualification tests as they involve quite different processes.
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Metalfixer
Mechanical
I'm retired now, but 30 some years ago I was an AWS (American Welding Society) CWI (Certified Welding Inspector),
and there was no Butt Weld, it was a Butt Joint with a Groove Weld. Unless something has changed.
and there was no Butt Weld, it was a Butt Joint with a Groove Weld. Unless something has changed.
Metalfixer
Mechanical
The reason that I remember this, is that this was one of the Changeling (Trick)
questions on the CWI Exam.
questions on the CWI Exam.
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So my understanding is that a butt Weld will only qualify a fillet Weld with a single sided beval with a backing strip (15614) but I know a lot of people who ask the same question am asking if a welder takes a full penetrated butt Weld (Vbutt) in the UK a welder will have to take a fillet and FPBW or a PPBW would be covered by a FPBW I did contact TWI and ask this question the answer was lots of welders who 90% of welds was butt welds failed on the fillet Weld test this is why its common for welders to take both types of welds, if I have asked the question wrong in any there's no need to judge hard am a learner and always say we have all learnt from someone in some way!!!!
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* Yes, EN ISO 15614-1 (procedure qualification) does provide this (see your screenshot above). Mind that there is a clause for sl/ml with specific conditions. This makes it common to qualify a ml BW, sl FW and ml FW (unless you're working with <3mm plates/tubes).Spalding123 said:
* No, EN ISO 9606-1 (welder certification) states that BW only qualifies BW and FW only qualifies FW. see § 5.4 b).
Agent666,
No, it is not used all around the world.
Type FPBW into Google and see what you get.
Nothing from any codes / standards but a lot of links to Australian design specifications.
Other than what the OP has posted above I can find no other code/standard that has listed this.
AS/NZS 1554.1 lists Complete Penetration Butt Weld - not Full Penetration Butt Weld.
Please advise where you have got your info from.
No, it is not used all around the world.
Type FPBW into Google and see what you get.
Nothing from any codes / standards but a lot of links to Australian design specifications.
Other than what the OP has posted above I can find no other code/standard that has listed this.
AS/NZS 1554.1 lists Complete Penetration Butt Weld - not Full Penetration Butt Weld.
Please advise where you have got your info from.
Guest
Communication takes enough effort without dropping out entire words. Acronyms drop out words in bunches.
Where it becomes extreme is when insiders start using acronyms as verbs (just shoot me now).
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
Where it becomes extreme is when insiders start using acronyms as verbs (just shoot me now).
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."
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Dekdee thank you for pointing this out I do apologise for this as its common talk in a work shop as I here a lot of the word FPBW I also see this on some drawings thanks for correcting this,kingnero great post explaining it in the best way
Thank you
Thank you
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Hi Dekdee, despite Google failing us, its a common term in common use in certain circles despite not being the way it might be strictly called up in their standards or codes as Spalding noted. As you point out complete penetration butt weld (CPBW) is used in AS/NZS1554 standards, cant argue with that.
But step inside any workshop or engineering consultancy who use this particular standard and you're unlikely to hear it talked about using this particular acronym (CPBW). FSBW or FPBW are almost exclusively commonly in use. I can't think of a case in 20 years when I've ever seen a NZ or Australian engineering drawing or shop drawing that referenced the correct CPBW nomenclature from 1554 in lieu of FSBW or less commonly FPBW.
I've worked on jobs in a number of countries around the world and worked with engineers from many more. So hardly representative of the entire world I guess. But most would understand what was meant no matter what the exact term used. Full penetration, complete penetration, full strength or even just butt weld or butt joint, etc, all mean the same thing to most engineers once they've had the acronym explained if they didn't work it out from the BW bit.
But step inside any workshop or engineering consultancy who use this particular standard and you're unlikely to hear it talked about using this particular acronym (CPBW). FSBW or FPBW are almost exclusively commonly in use. I can't think of a case in 20 years when I've ever seen a NZ or Australian engineering drawing or shop drawing that referenced the correct CPBW nomenclature from 1554 in lieu of FSBW or less commonly FPBW.
I've worked on jobs in a number of countries around the world and worked with engineers from many more. So hardly representative of the entire world I guess. But most would understand what was meant no matter what the exact term used. Full penetration, complete penetration, full strength or even just butt weld or butt joint, etc, all mean the same thing to most engineers once they've had the acronym explained if they didn't work it out from the BW bit.
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What we have here is a failure to communicate.
There are some disparities between the terminology used by ASME, AWS, and other countries. Case in point; Butt Weld - ASME Section IX used to include the term "butt weld" to describe a Butt Joint or a complete joint penetration groove weld using AWS terminology. I see that the term "butt weld" has been dropped by ASME Section IX and even they have adopted the term "Butt Joint" as defined by AWS. Many engineers use the term butt weld to describe any complete joint penetration groove weld in any of the common joint types; butt, corner, or T-joint. You can't easily have a complete joint penetration groove weld in either the lap joint or edge joint. Likewise, it is unlikely one will have a complete joint penetration groove in either the flare bevel or flare V groove types. AWS considers a Butt Weld to be a type of welding process, i.e., flush upset butt weld.
Another example is "full penetration" versus "complete penetration". The preferred term per AWS A3.0 is "complete joint penetration". "Full joint penetration" or "full penetration" are both considered to be a nonstandard terms (slang)by AWS. It has been so for somewhere on the order of forty years.
Another example of a bit of confusion is the difference between a "chamfer" and a "bevel". Here in the US the term "chamfer" is used by machinists to define the internal acute angle along the edge of a part, whereas the "bevel" is the external angle (90 degrees minus the angle measure with a protractor) used to define the angle of a part prepared for a groove weld.
Considering this forum includes people from all parts of the world and all levels of expertise, I have to agree that the use of acronyms can be confusing. What is considered standard terminology in one country may well be nonstandard terminology in another country. Then again, I have to wonder if we are using what is considered standard terminology and what is the governing document you are using? As mentioned, here in the US and in many other countries, AWS A3.0 is the "standard" for welding, soldering, and brazing, but certain codes take liberties, i.e., “butt weld” and “root gap” as used by ASME (no longer defined by ASME Section IX), or in the recent past the word “land” as used by API 1104 (API has recently adopted AWS’ term “root face”).
We could do ourselves a favor by sticking with standard terminology, perhaps double checking a specific term with a current edition of “standard terms and definitions” used in your particular country. It is surprising to see how often what we think is standard terminology is in fact considered “slang” or simply local vernacular.
How many of you know what a “dry pass” weld is? It is a term used by a jet engine manufacturer here in the US. No one else uses the term and their engineers just assumes everyone knows what they were referring to. To that, all I can say is, “Duh?” I pointed out the discrepancy to one of their welding engineers. All that accomplished was to really tic him off.
Best regards - Al
There are some disparities between the terminology used by ASME, AWS, and other countries. Case in point; Butt Weld - ASME Section IX used to include the term "butt weld" to describe a Butt Joint or a complete joint penetration groove weld using AWS terminology. I see that the term "butt weld" has been dropped by ASME Section IX and even they have adopted the term "Butt Joint" as defined by AWS. Many engineers use the term butt weld to describe any complete joint penetration groove weld in any of the common joint types; butt, corner, or T-joint. You can't easily have a complete joint penetration groove weld in either the lap joint or edge joint. Likewise, it is unlikely one will have a complete joint penetration groove in either the flare bevel or flare V groove types. AWS considers a Butt Weld to be a type of welding process, i.e., flush upset butt weld.
Another example is "full penetration" versus "complete penetration". The preferred term per AWS A3.0 is "complete joint penetration". "Full joint penetration" or "full penetration" are both considered to be a nonstandard terms (slang)by AWS. It has been so for somewhere on the order of forty years.
Another example of a bit of confusion is the difference between a "chamfer" and a "bevel". Here in the US the term "chamfer" is used by machinists to define the internal acute angle along the edge of a part, whereas the "bevel" is the external angle (90 degrees minus the angle measure with a protractor) used to define the angle of a part prepared for a groove weld.
Considering this forum includes people from all parts of the world and all levels of expertise, I have to agree that the use of acronyms can be confusing. What is considered standard terminology in one country may well be nonstandard terminology in another country. Then again, I have to wonder if we are using what is considered standard terminology and what is the governing document you are using? As mentioned, here in the US and in many other countries, AWS A3.0 is the "standard" for welding, soldering, and brazing, but certain codes take liberties, i.e., “butt weld” and “root gap” as used by ASME (no longer defined by ASME Section IX), or in the recent past the word “land” as used by API 1104 (API has recently adopted AWS’ term “root face”).
We could do ourselves a favor by sticking with standard terminology, perhaps double checking a specific term with a current edition of “standard terms and definitions” used in your particular country. It is surprising to see how often what we think is standard terminology is in fact considered “slang” or simply local vernacular.
How many of you know what a “dry pass” weld is? It is a term used by a jet engine manufacturer here in the US. No one else uses the term and their engineers just assumes everyone knows what they were referring to. To that, all I can say is, “Duh?” I pointed out the discrepancy to one of their welding engineers. All that accomplished was to really tic him off.
Best regards - Al
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