How did you "learn" to become good enough to run a complete design? 1

[Johns20188]

When you first started as a structural engineer, what was your method of learning how to design and become familiar with the code? I just started my structural engineering job a couple months ago but I feel I cannot design a building entirely by myself. I am starting to read some books but I feel I am learning too slowly.

 

[KootK]

Most weekends, I take a an hour one morning to read through a set of drawings that someone else put together. If possible, I make it someone at another firm. Half the battle is getting a feel for what "normal" looks like. One of the difficulties with structural engineering is that, to be anywhere close to profitable, you pretty much need to know the answer before you start.

If you can get your hands on it, I found this book to be an excellent, practical guide to how buildings work: Link.

Two months in, there's no reason for you, or anyone else, to expect you to be able to design a building by yourself. It's a two sided coin. On the one hand, it's frustrating that you can't function independently straight out of the gate. On the other hand, once you've gotten a few years under your belt, you'll find it satisfying that not just any punk straight of our college can replace you.

Participating here is a great way to learn. It takes time though.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[NOLAENG]

1st step, Learn to have patience. This isn't easy for most people including myself.
Most of us aren't going to master everything in structural design in one year. There is a reason why you work under an experience professional engineer. Learn from them as much as you can and listen to their advice. Ask questions when you are lost only after you've made the effort to understand the problem yourself.

Here is what I did to learn the design codes and principles.
It also allowed me to feel pretty confident taking the P.E. exam and passing this past October.
Pick 1 topic a week (e.g. AISC 360-10 chapter F) to read about after work for an hour or so.
Learn and understand how and why the design checks are specified. You may have to go back to your college textbooks to brush up on the fundamentals at times. Hopefully you didn't sell these.
This approach may not seem like much but it will add over time.

Other than that, it takes time as KootK mentioned. I didn't really have a good grasp for the whole design until the 2 or 3 year mark.

 

[mtu1972]

First off, know that you are not alone and as I had the same experience over 40 years ago things have not changed.

I started at a small consulting firm that worked for Architects on commercial projects. I was the 4th engineer on staff. Even though I had majored in the structures option I was lost with the terminology that was common place in the industry, but had not been discussed in the classroom. Used part of my first paycheck to get a book on Building Construction. Also was blessed to have an Owner that was a great mentor. He set aside an assigned time each week to meet and review my work/calcs/etc. Once I proved to him that I knew how to do a specific task, we never had to talk about that task again.

I was never given a whole building at that time. The Sr. Engineer (not the owner) would say "design the 2nd floor beams and girders". When that was done he'd repeat the process with the roof framing. Then the columns, bracing, footings, etc. I did not get to do a building on my own until I had about 18 months of experience. Then the reason that building was given to me was that it was from my home town and he knew it would be very important to me.

I remember one Saturday I was designing the columns for an industrial warehouse type of structure and the boss came down into the basement to check on my progress. I had the interior and front wall columns done and was working on the back-wall columns. Not working fast enough and getting paid overtime - he said, "Look at the site plan. They can expand to the rear and to the right, so make those columns the same as the interior columns. Then design the columns on the left side wall and get on out of here".

I knew he was not mad, but was trying to make the point that my time had cost implications and was not being focused efficiently.



gjc

 

[CCox]

Codes have become very complicated in the last 15 years. You should get a hold of the 2000 IBC and ASCE 7-95 to see how much simpler they were! The older engineers have benefitted from learning a simpler code that has developed in complexity sequentially. You are jumping in to a complex code from the get go. It is important for you to be a sponge and learn from whoever is over you. Glean as much experience and knowledge that you can.

I had a boss that emphasized hand calculations. I remember designing beams and columns by hand to learn the fundamentals. You learn to navigate the material standards. In fact, I can still size a steel column or beam faster using the steel manual than using software. Also, my boss would have me trace the loads down through the structure and design the connections and main members. I started with gravity systems and then learned lateral systems. In addition, I consider myself fortunate to perform my own drafting. I know many places have a separate drafting department, but I have found that designing a building is creatively connected with actually drawing it.

We are entering a time where the computer is taking care of everything. I understand the benefits from using technology, but young engineers need to be developing their understanding of structural theory, not learning to blindly trust the output of a program.

CJC

 

[rb1957]

have a design problem (though not a collapse or worse) or two, and you'll learn a lot !

seriously, it depends on your situation. you're working inside a larger company, they're overseeing your work now. you'll gauge their confidence in you by seeing how independent they allow you to work. they should provide you with feedback (+ve and -ve) about your performance. you shoud have some sort of mentoring, even if it's your boss saying "this is crap, do it again. make this and that bigger, change this ...". learning on your own is hard, but doable; it's hard 'cause you're seeing a design solution and maybe not answers to all your questions.

i tell newbies here that you have to build your own experience pool ... do some "unnecessary" checks to show yourself that they are uncessary, and don't rely on "my boss said that these checks are unnecessary so we don't do them". convince yourself that methods are conservative, and how conservative, and when you're gettting pushed into a corner you know how to make the analysis less conservative.

plan on at least 5 to 10 years of good varied experience to be a somewhat campetent designer.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[dhengr]

Fatgulfer:
You’ll learn at least as much on the job, or more, than you learned in school. Get with your boss or superior and ask them if they would be your mentor, not just a calc. and plan checker. They will understand, they were in your position once, although they may be frustrated at times that you can’t run twice as fast as you do, at the moment. They want you to learn and succeed, if you shot a bull it can be very costly to them. Show them that you want to learn. When you have a question try to go to them with a bit of thought put into it first, some possible solutions or ideas, or good reasons why it isn’t obvious to you. Get a fairly clean set of plans, and the calcs. and the engineering files that go with those plans, ask the boss for them. Then study them along with the codes and your text books, so you start to understand how they were put together and what thought process went into them. Do a good share of this early learning on your own time, you come to the job (fresh from school) being expected to know some of the fundamentals and basics. Although, you probably never did design a whole bldg. project while in school. Make a list of questions or plan areas/details, etc. that you want to discuss at you next mentor meeting. Once in awhile you buy the beer and pizza to show your appreciation. Ask intelligent questions, not dumb/lazy ones for lack of effort on your part; and you shouldn’t have to ask the same question twice, for obvious reasons. Keep your own notebook of calcs. for various members, conditions, details, etc., along with the reasons why its done that way, for your own edification. Many times the code commentaries are as important as the exact code verbiage in developing an understanding of how and why things are done a certain way. Always read the footnotes in tables, etc., many times they explain what’s confusing you. Start your own ref. library of important (go to) text books, handbooks, codes, etc. which you can mark up they way you want, for your own use. You’ve got two eyes and two ears, and only one mouth, use them in about those same proportions.

 

[Trenno]

Great advice guys, I've now got one year under my belt. I've probably learnt more in one year on the job than 3 years at uni.

My advice would be try and get out to site as much as possible. I took a record of all the inspections and what I did on them. Ended up totaling 45 for 2014.

People I know from uni, barely got out of the office more than 5-10 times. I think was a huge advantage and point of difference for me.

 

[TehMightyEngineer]

I'm 7 years into my career and just got my PE. I'd say I'm competent to design the structural portion of a building entirely by myself (and have done so on a few occasions under the principles supervision). That said, it took many years to gather enough experience to be there. Don't expect to be comfortable doing a design on your own for at least a few years. After about 2-3 years you should be able to identify areas you are weak in, some self-study will fill in these gaps. Finally, after you've filled in these gaps get your PE license. Studying for this will really polish off your knowledge and help you feel comfortable with designing a whole building. I didn't feel ready to do a design 100% on my own until I had finished studying for the SE exam.

I'd say one of the best things you can do is similar to what KootK said, take time each day to study other peoples designs (in your office and out). Browse the eng-tips forums and read the topics, don't limit yourself to stuff you're comfortable with. Make sure you read up and try to understand the more complex problems. Eventually you'll realize that you're almost there and the pieces will start fitting together.

Finally, use your mentor. Often 10 hours of banging your head against a code can be solved by a 15 minute discussion with someone more knowledgeable.

Maine Professional and Structural Engineer.
(Just passed the 16-hour SE exam, woohoo!)

 

[IRstuff]

Not my field, but I'll put in my two cents.

Everyone is different, and everyone learns differently, and at different speeds. Some may become subject matter experts in a few years, while others will never get there, or may not desire to get there.

From personal experience, it took me about 8 years to really understand one particular aspect of requirements for a laser-guidance system. But, since almost all specifications are subject to interpretation, there may be more than one "right" answer, and still, there may be lots of "wrong" answers. One big variable is how much design margin to put in and where.

Don't rush in because you think you need to be at a certain level at a certain time. You don't know what you don't know, and only time can fill in the gaps.

TTFN
faq731-376

Need help writing a question or understanding a reply? forum1529

Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

 

[medeek]

About 9 months ago I decided to work for a structural engineer in the area. Granted all of this work is pretty low tech to most of you (residential garages, ramblers, small renovations). My background is in mechanical with aluminum and steel structural experience doing projects for Boeing and other aerospace manufacturers. Wood design was completely new to me, however after a couple months and doing some four wall, box structures as well as reading Breyer's book and the 2012 NDS cover to cover I felt fairly comfortable with wood, or so I thought.

After a couple of months I decided to strike out on my own, the 2 hour drive to her office was just not feasible. My experience has been a little bumpy. Like IRstuff stated, you don't know what you don't know and that will be the stuff that really bites you. Fortunately, I was able to get my hands on a few sample structural reports and that help me develop my own spreadsheets and checks for different vertical and lateral elements. When I really hit a road block I would call up a couple of my local mentors and pick their brain for answers, or meet and pay them for an hour or so of their time. Additionally, I have spent some quality time on this board gleaning a considerable amount of knowledge from many of you. However, without the over sight of a more experienced engineer I feel that I have probably over compensated and perform too many checks for your average residence, in other words I'm doing more than is required, especially for the typical pay for residential project in this area.

In a nutshell, don't go it alone unless you have no other option. Read everything you can on pertinent subjects. Some days I've spent the entire days just reading. Get out and inspect your projects, understand the lingo and what works or doesn't work in the field. Connect with people and establish some mentors, someone who you trust and is willing to share their knowledge with you and help further your education.

Develop you own tools and software (if time permits). I am a firm believer that you don't really have a feel for the design of typical elements (beams, posts, diaphragms etc...) unless you've gone through the process of writing some code that performs all of the necessary checks, it forces you to consider all of the parameters and conditions and gets one out of the black box mode. Your software may never be as complex as the commercially available solutions (some of these took years to develop) but at least you will know what they are doing and why.

Be willing to share your knowledge. Boards like these are great resource but they are only made possible by great individuals who are willing to chip in and add their two cents. A lot of the times you may not see a solution to a problem, or your have your head so firmly inside your own box you can't see outside of it, hence two heads is better than one. The recent major advances in engineering, medicine, technology and other fields has been made possible by the sharing of knowledge. We all build upon each other. The advent of the internet has significantly accelerated this process and I am genuinely excited to see what the next 40-50 years will bring.

A confused student is a good student.

 

[IFRs]

After being an engineer since 1977 I learn something everyday. I consider myself an expert in very few things. I have developed my own philosophy and standard of care. Not saying you have to wait this long but keep an open mind.