How do you tell your boss he's wrong without making it sound that way? 2

[casseopeia]

I did some destructive testing on a building and found some non-conforming construction. There were no weep holes or base flashing at the bottom of a brick veneer exterior wall. The California Building Code (based on UBC) clearly states that weep holes and base flashing are to be installed at the first course of masonry above grade. The seller’s expert didn’t catch it although they were looking at the same opening I was. All I know about the other consultant is that he graduated from Dominican in San Rafael, CA, a liberal arts school. I have friends who went to Dominican, but they have degrees in family therapy, nursing and ballet, not engineering or architecture since the school has no curriculum for those degrees.

The seller’s consultant threw a hissy fit about the flashing issue with my boss on a conference call when I was not present. My boss caved during a conference call, then called to try to convince me to change my report and say that it is acceptable construction. I said as a licensed architect, could not ethically say something that is in direct violation of the building code is OK without a written variance from the building official having jurisdiction.

I am to meet all the parties at the site on Monday morning. My boss said that when I see what they are talking about, I will change my mind and kind of implied my continued employment was at stake. He said he wants the purchaser to buy the building so that the firm gets the remediation work where he can recoup some lost fee. I told him it was not my mind that needed changing. They need to run it by the building official. My quandary is that I am reluctant to openly challenge my boss in front of the other consultant and his Client, the mayor of the city that owns the building. I’m just not sure what more I can say, except ask the other consultant if he could do a lovely pirouette for me.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[TheTick]

Have a large print version of the code ready, duly highlighted with big red arrows. A few excerpts from good ol' Websters may also help.

 

[Ron]

Cass...tough position, but stick it through. If you're right, which we presume, then all will benefit (ultimately). The liberal arts guy can't sustain a good technical argument, so I agree with TheTick...do your homework and bring it with you.

Good luck.

 

[MikeHalloran]

The structural wizards here are always nattering on about how they sandwich masonry between steel channels for the purpose of installing a lintel so they can knock out a door or window opening.

All you have to do is get your own structural wizards to propose something similar, but more ambitious, to hold up the entire wall while the base course is removed and replaced with what should have been there in the first place.

... as part of the remediation, of course. Including labor for you to supervise, at a respectful distance.

Your covering memo will need to quote in full the appropriate sections of the Code, of course.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[xnuke]

Whenever I have to point out a problem, I always try to have one or more solutions that I can bring up as well, and estimated costs/impacts for those solutions. My input is usually received better - there may be grumbling, but tantrums are usually avoided.

xnuke
"Live and act within the limit of your knowledge and keep expanding it to the limit of your life." Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[hokie66]

A clear violation of not only your building code, but of long established good practice. Tell it like it is. Your boss will either support you or he won't. If not, he is a fool. Sorry you are in this position, but you have no choice.

 

[rowingengineer]

Maybe worth running the detail pass the Structural engineering other technical forum, just to make sure that all opinions thus the ammo is collected.

Looking at this from a different perspective, if I wanted to make an over-riding call on one of my employees reports (which would never happen unless in the extreme). I would rewrite the report, and sign the report myself. It is after all my business and my name that runs on the business, your boss should be willing to do the same, while it does compromise you ethically, you can cover this by a email to your boss stating the facts. Then all you have to do is decide if it is worth working for this prick.


ANY FOOL CAN DESIGN A STRUCTURE. IT TAKES AN ENGINEER TO DESIGN A CONNECTION.”

 

[Ron]

Cass...I re-read your post. Looks like you're a victim of the "Good Ol' Boys" network. The seller is the mayor/city...he knows the building official...probably controls his destiny.

I assume this was a Property Condition Assessment for the real estate transaction. If done in accordance with ASTM E2018, the other consultant doesn't meet the qualifications if your understanding of his qualifications is correct. Further, the city has liability for selling a building with known code and construction defects. Point out to your client that if he sells the building in 5 years, someone else will find these defects and he'll be responsible to repair or negotiate a price reduction. This is a liability shift that your client shouldn't bear without adequate compensation (such as a reduction in the selling price to effect the repairs).

I get the impression that perhaps your boss is not a licensed engineer or architect. While you are not required to be an advocate for your client, you are required to protect your client from the expense of a repair that they should not have to bear. Your boss wants to benefit from that expense in the remediation. That's unethical, and for you illegal.

I agree with hokie66....do it, do it professionally and with all your ducks in a row, explaining carefully to all concerned that it is necessary and legally required. You don't have to blindside your boss, but you do need to make it clear to him what you can or cannot do as a licensed professional.

Good luck. Let us know what happens.

 

[jmw]

Oh dear, Cass, where do you find these bosses?
And it isn't just that your boss is wrong but that he has gone on record (?) as saying a code violation is OK. Verbally, anyway but he can retract this saying that now he has taken advice, he has been made aware of some other issues. You may need to feed him these lines and about how he isn't serving the clients best interests by not being through.

He needs to understand that part of your job is protecting his a*** and that you need his co-operation to do that.

But as you say, the problem is how to handle it.

Objectives:
[ul][li]you will not be party to endorsing a code violation[/li]
[li]you want to keep your job [/li]
[li]You need to protect your boss from himself (this goes to the previous point)[/li]
[li]The client must accept that there is a code violation and that something must be done - Rowingengineer and others have made good suggestions, but perhaps you need to address the issue of who should pay and suggest that the original violator may need to make good?[/li]
[li]you need to preserve your professional integrity[/li][/ul]

OK, this isn't about code but people and psychology.

We can draw on several sources for inspiration including "yes Minister" (the "Brave decision" gambit) and "Lateral Thinking" by Edward De Bono (set out your objectives and structure the solution to meet them).

The boss is backing the sellers specialist rather than his own. He needs to see this and that it isn't in his best interests.

He is motivated by money.
So instead of him looking at the pot of gold he thinks he stands to win by ignoring the code violation, he need to see the even bigger pot of gold he might have to shell out if this ends in litigation further down the line - a suit brought by anyone who sees this as a way to place blame with your boss rather than the client or the original contractor.

This is where an application of the "how to get the decision you want" principle (as explained by Sir Humphrey Appleby in "Yes Minister") is called for.
(Google "Brave decision yes minister").

You don't challenge the boss's decision, you call it a brave decision. (Choose suitable words)
But you will need to point out that tehre is no way your report can overlook the code violation - but, as RowEng suggests, he should write the letter, but that he should be careful to limit his liability as this could be seen as a waiver(?) indemnifying the client against any subsequent damages. This is, in effect, what they are asking for; you or your boss to take liability and protect them from liability.
Put that way it might give him pause for thought.

So the trick is to suggest to you boss that this is a brave or courageous decision in the light of possible future litigation by anyone down the line.

A good idea at this point might be to ask him if he has consulted his legal advisor on his exposure if this goes pear shaped at some future date and if the lawyer has suggested any terms that need to be included to avoid having to shell out cash in future.

It is tempting to want undermine the Dom Grads position; some asides about how you hadn't realised what good professionals liberal arts colleges produce.... but a better way is to suggest that he should put his money where his mouth is (make it the Dom Grads problem) by requesting that if he thinks this is OK, apparently based on superior knowledge and education (Ha Ha), that he should be asked to make a written declaration/proposal/requested action "for the record" (your boss ought to think this is a good idea to cover his own a****) and at this point your liberal arts graduate ought to get nervous and start backtracking.
Any weakness on the part of the Dom Grad is to be exploited as it ought to make your boss nervous.

Verbal conversations are all very well, but come court time you need it in writing because they have a strange habit of being remembered wrong.




JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[casseopeia]

I did a lot of research after my investigation on a related topic, installing brick below grade. As Hokie points out, base flashing and weeps at the bottom of a cavity wall is a long, long established common practice recommended by every single industry group having anything to do with masonry. I walked in to my office the next day with a stack of published articles and details an inch thick from the Brick Industry Association, The Masonry Advisory Council, the Calif. Conference of Masonry Contractors and even the Canadian Masonry Contractors Association as well as several individual state guidelines, every single one of them showing base flashing and weeps along with recommendations on how to design brick below grade. It’s such a common practice that omitting those two things is not even contemplated. And the repair I proposed is very similar to what MikeH is suggesting. In the past I have had contractors use angle iron placed into the bed joint of the brick you want to support and use expansion anchors through the angle at every third head joint into the sheathing to temporarily support the brick while the courses below are repaired, and flashing installed.

The problem is that for other reasons, my boss originally proposed tearing down the entire wall, which is unnecessary overkill. The seller’s consultant reacted in opposition to an outrageous proposal with an outrageous proposal of his own, do nothing. And both are entrenched in their positions that are rooted in ego, not good construction practice.

Ron, I was assigned this project for destructive testing after a preliminary investigation had been done and recommendations made. I would assume that the buyer has had a comprehensive pre-purchase survey done and that report most likely recommended a more detailed inspection of the exterior walls. This is where my firm comes in. My boss , who is a licensed architect, and another employee did a moisture survey and poked a couple of holes and found some bad stuff and recommended a more comprehensive investigation that included removing portions of the walls. That’s what I did. But I like your point about the purchaser being responsible in the future for the base flashing. I will definitely bring that up on Monday. It might make them reconsider. I have no choice but to stick to my position. As far as I’m concerned, there is no gray area here. I’m just a little shell-shocked after my office abruptly fired their accountant on Friday. She sat next to me, went to lunch with the boss to discuss some accounting principles/problems and never came back. I fear a similar fate.

jmw, I'll spend some time looking at that, thanks.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump

 

[Ron]

Cass...what your research and common sense tell you is that now you can moderate your boss's original position to allow him to save face. You're offering a middle ground solution that would be in everyone's best interest.

Sounds like you did a good job with the homework! Way to go.

I hated homework in school. Now I do it routinely...and actually enjoy most of it!

 

[TheTick]

No doubt you are right. Now, how to deal with that fact without losing your job or denting your career....

Ultimately, your boss is more interested in saving face than in safety. Whatever resolution comes about needs to take that into account.

More than once in my career, I have had to remind employers that they hired an engineer, not a designer. I was hired to be an engineer, not a yes man. I have obligations to my profession and the public that supersede any to my employer.

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Cass ... Sounds like there's more going on (down) at that company than meets the eye. I would contact the fired accountant to get her take on things.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I'm just a little shell-shocked after my office abruptly fired their accountant on Friday. She sat next to me, went to lunch with the boss to discuss some accounting principles/problems and never came back.

Uhhhhh, I would be worried about any company that cans their accountant for voicing concerns over accounting principles/problems.

I know times are tough for you right now, but maybe you want to start looking for other employment options before something goes up in flames there.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[msquared48]

I agree with CBL here. Good point CBL.

If the boss is having money problems, he will "follow the money here" to solve that problem. He will want to get paid by his client to solve his problem short term. Ignoring your report recommendation creates a long term problem that may never rear its ugly head. His choice I guess...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[BJC]

"Now, how to deal with that fact without losing your job or denting your career...."
TheTick

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters."
Alan K. Simpson

 

[patprimmer]

I would just caution not to damage your reputation or the ability to retain your license to keep a job that seems shakey anyway.

No job bur still with reputation and license is better than no job, no license, being part of a failed company and maybe being unfavorably involved in litigation in the future.

Having said that, I think voice concerns that indicate you wish to protect your boss from litigation rather than you are questioning his ethics or competence. Do it tactfully so he can save face. Offer compromises that do meet codes and maybe bring more work in for this project. LET IT BE HIS IDEA.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SIGN A FALSE OR FRAUDULENT DOCUMENT.



Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[MikeHalloran]

Now, I think I understand where the boss is coming from.

If you jack up the wall and replace the bottom, and everything comes out fine, that would be a good outcome, and everyone would be happy, but the procedure includes some risk.

The risk amounts to this:
If you jack up the wall to replace the bottom, and everything goes sideways, the new replacement wall gets built at your expense.

Perhaps the boss is thinking that his way is more conservative, as in:
If you don't propose to jack up the wall and replace the bottom, the new replacement wall gets built at the customer's expense.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[vanmorrison]

Casse,
Be true to yourself and the public. Have an open mind and provide suggestions to your boss to rectify this conflict. Pressure does funny things to people.

I suggest that you meet with your boss prior to the meeting and educate him. It would be embarrassing to his company to be in disagreement with your boss in front of the client. Don't let him intimidate you, which is a tactic that bullies use to make people cave. Stand strong. Listen to your gut you will know what is right.

Please keep us updated on how it worked out.

 

[patprimmer]

Mike is once again correct.

You should suggest several fixes including building a new wall with various risks listed and let them argue price vs risk to who for each option.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules