How ethical is it to give and receive gifts 4

[arunmrao]

In India the festive season is just over and it will begin soon all over the western world. This is the time when in the corporate world there is hectic giving and receiving of gifts. In exchangs business favors are returned.How appropriate is it in today's society to give and receive gifts. I request the members to give their opininon Personally I am against it and do not encourage in the business circles that I interact with.

This being the festive season I hope it may be on top of everyone's mind.

 

[rhodie]

If it is truely a "gift", it should be given with nothing asked in return. I give small gifts to certain associates (I violate no company policies in doing so!), but they are given with the understanding that I appreciate them for who they are, not what they can do for me.

I entirely understand your attitde; Giving people stuff is a delicate line to walk, as bribery is indeed unethical. However, I have friends / business partners that deserve to be shown that I am truely greatful for all they give me (in non-business values) during a workyear.

 

[arunmrao]

One way of expressing your sincere sentiments and showing your colleagues that you care and that they matter is by giving small gifts. These are innocent and truly wonderful.

But in the business circles this sharing is carried to extreme and obscene levels. It is this that I am speaking about and as a profession of engineers we must try and curb it if not eliminate.

 

[CanEngJohn]

Any gift given in order to solicit business favours is unethical. It does not matter how big or small. Gifts given for appreciation or just generosity between business collegues are acceptable but how do you prove that to a Securities Investigator? In many companies the illusion of kickbacks is considered just as danagerous as the actual activity and they set policy that way (Not allowed to go to lunch with a supplier for example).

General practice in the companies I have worked for recently is that such practices are forbidden and all gifts shall be reported and/or returned.

In practice the best thing to do is to give gifts that have no monetary value for the individual (such as a plaque or trophy) but have sentimental value. Should you desire to send more than a card.

With coporations being the way they are these days we walk a fine line when we give gifts matter how innocent the original intention. I know a situation where the giver gave the gift out of generosity but the receiver did not take it that way since the gift was substantial. Issues down the road resulted due to this gift and the person who gave it was eventually fired.

 

[BJC]

Gifts can be given in the name of a person to another group.
I have recieved a couple of card that say in effect "$50 has been donated to the Salvation Army in your name, this has been done in appreciation of our professional relationship and your friendship."
To me it means more than someone taking you to a ball game, or a fishing trip. I am not sure it's totally ethical but I now do it for some people. It does not have to be the Salvation Army, but a cause or charity they care about.

 

[TheTick]

gifts gone awry

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/nov03/183215.asp

If the ladies don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

 

[CajunCenturion]

It sounds like the question is really in determining the difference between a gift, a bribe, and the normal cost of business, and I think rhodie has it exactly right: "If it is truely a "gift", it should be given with nothing asked in return.". Nothing in return means nothing. It is a token of appreciation and nothing more, nothing less.

If you're giving the "gift" in hopes that you'll get extra consideration on the next proposal, or get a discount, or a day off, or whatever in return, then it's not a gift. Whether it's a bribe or the cost of doing business is, at least to me, a much tougher question. Where do you draw the line between the unethical bribe, and the obligatory cost of business?

For example, suppose that all of your competitors are giving gifts to a prospect. You know that those who do not provide gifts will not get the business. Granted this is an ugly situation, but it is unethical for you to extend that "gift" simply to level the playing field? I think not. Is it unethical for you to extend the "gift" to tilt the playing field in your direction? That I would consider unethical.

I know we can all come up with situations which muddy these waters to no end.

On the flip side, receiving a gift is much the same. If you receive it understanding that nothing is expected of you in return, then you may be at fault of insulting the giver by not accepting it. If it's being given for ulterior consideration, then accepting is probably unethical. The one difference in this position is that you can annouce to everyone, "I'm not taking gifts, don't even try, we're not going to play that game", and shut it down before it starts.

It's easy on the extremes, unfortunately we, for the most part, live and work in the middle ground.

 

[IRstuff]

One thing that our company stresses is not so much the "fact" of impropriety, but rather, the "appearance" of impropriety.

You can receive any gift, with no strings attached, but at a later date, you decide in favor of the person who gave you the gift. Was there quid pro quo? How would you prove otherwise? This is why any gift, of substantial value, no matter how innocent can throw a monkey wrench in the works.

Many of the engineers in this forum are PE's, operating their own businesses. They cannot possibly afford to take a hit on their reputations by even the hint of possible conflict of interest or less than complete impartiality.

TTFN

 

[CajunCenturion]

That's very true IRstuff. As we all know, perception is 90% of reality.

 

[JOM]

Recently I was a at a seminar organised by a government authority. The audience were engineers and OHS professionals. I was surprised when each speaker was presented with a small gift after their talk. I assume they were not paid for their efforts, and that the gift was low-cost.

Since it was all out in the open, I thought it a rather civil and appropriate way to thank the speakers. Perhaps this is common.

Cheers,
John.

 

[IRstuff]

Speakers are often given "honoraria", usually in case or check, but often as gifts. There's apparently something impolite about "paying" speakers to speak, but certain highly-demanded speakers, such as Clinton or Bush, Sr. have reportedly published honoraria price lists, so the distinction is pretty low.

TTFN

 

[buzzp]

I think giving small gifts is ok but there is a fine line there. It would be preferred that no gifts be given to avoid the gray area. Unfortunately, our politicians practice gift receiving more than politics in most cases. In addition, I do not see this trend disappearing anytime soon. Gift giving takes on many forms. Some of you probably remember some hoopla about a sheriffs office somewhere that disbursed confiscated money and materials amongst their employees as sort of an award. If awards such as this need to be given to get more arrests then someone should take a close look at the departments motivation.
I do know of cases where an engineer will specify a certain brand, knowing that kickbacks will be coming. I thought this was illegal. It is common practice amongst some of the big dogs of the electrical control world, although they will never admit it.
I guess I would avoid gifts (not that many have been offered, except one was a trip to Lake Tahoe) but at the same time would be very tempted to take a gift depending on the situation. In any case, gift giving is common whether we like it or not, especially in other fields.
Is it unethical? I do not know but would lean towards yes.

 

[GregLocock]

Surely, the point is, if you are given a gift then it is impossible to prove that it did not affect a subsequent decision.

So I see it as cut and dried.

When dealing with people from other countries who habitually give small useless objects (sorry esteemed suppliers) as gifts when we first meet them, OK, it is impossible, socially to refuse them. Since my total score for these things in 12 years is a hideous desk clock, a year 2000 tie (polyester), a little wooden doll, and a keyring with a shock absorber on it, I am fairly confident that I am uncorrupted.

On the other hand oddly enough I can remember the name of each of those suppliers - so it does work to some extent.

Cheers

Greg Locock

 

[gerhardf]

I think there is still a bit some may have to think about... For example, CajunCenturion above defined apart gifts and bribes, just to rationalize a few sentences later the bribes as "cost of doing business." I'd think that in such cases, the real "cost of doing business" is to compromise one's integrity; you shouldn't underestimate that cost.

IMO it is as simple as Greg put it: any gift is a potential bribe. That's because the difference between a gift and a bribe is usually nothing that can be proven, either way (in the case of a decision by the receiver favorable for the giver).

The only thing one can do is to give or receive only gifts that are small in value -- and by small I mean negligible for the personal living circumstances of the receiver and for the conditions of the project.

 

[JOM]

I'm reminded of the fellow who applied to the Rockefeller Institute for a grant of one million dollars. His research proposal was to test the theory that "money doesn't buy happiness".

In the same spirit of doing public good, I'm willing to test the theory that gifts compromise one's integrity. Now, I'm a highly integral person, so the gifts will need to be high quality - I'm not cheap. Any takers?



Cheers,
John.

 

[arunmrao]

Despite all these sensitivities regarding acceptance of rich gifts, the process goes on and subconsciously the receiver is indebted and is expected to make a return(modern day politics,bureaucrats, government tenders, multi national companies etc.) This form of corruption raises the expectation of family members too,who are the beneficiaries.I can cite numerous Indian examples,I do not know if it happens in other places.

A subordinate invites his boss and family for a dinner. Is it a bribe,are there any expectations from the subordinate etc a whole lot of issues arise? What should the boss do acccept the offer or politely decline?

 

[gerhardf]

With a dinner invitation we get into a gray zone, IMO. I have always worked in relatively small companies where it is common that team and company members socialise. I consider this a good thing.

OTOH you could claim that when a boss and a subordinate are friends (or more friendly than others), the boss might be compromised in case of a problem with the sub. But I think trying to prevent this in all instances goes too far. You want to be able to be friends with your coworkers.

You have to apply some common sense. If you feel that someone is trying to bribe you, if the invitation goes beyond what the personal relationship carries, decline it. I have always made it a point to try to create a personal relationship with the people I work with. Works for me.

 

[CanEngJohn]

If you are truly friends with your coworkers (laterally and vertically) then this issue is exceedingly easy to get around.

Secret Santa anyone? How about a Christmas lottery? Friends would not be apposed to creating a situation where there was not any grey area and gifts would not be considered bribes.

I personally never give a gift to my boss. Usually the team pools its resources (everyone pitch in $20) and buys a selection of gifts for the boss which comes from the department. I respect my boss and would never want to put him in a position where he would feel that my generosity was nothing but generosity or that my generosity would compromise his professional integrity.

In the business world as soon as the company name changes on the business card I would politely refuse the gift. I HAVE hurt people's feelings because of this but in all cases once I explained why and how I felt and what that gift could be potentially perceived as I never had an issue with the person. I have turned down numerous lunches, hockey tickets (nice ones too - ones that will be years before I can afford), plaques, jackets, baseball caps as well as other misc gifts. IMO the easiest path is to say "Hey thanks for the thought but I am afraid I cannot accept it. However here is a place where you could donate it and some child would enjoy it. It would mean even more to me if you could do that."

Also friends of mine from University no longer enchange gifts because some of us work in companies where this sort of gift giving could be considered collusion or bribery. This is what I call the price of doing business ethically.

 

[RDK]

One thing that is becoming more common is a holiday card that simply states

“In honour of this festive occasion, a donation has been made to charity in the name of my friends, clients and colleagues”

Sometimes the charity is explicitly mentioned and sometimes it is not, depends on the donor.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[patprimmer]

I know this is an old thread, but I do have some thoughts on the subject. Some of my thoughts have been danced around, but not directly addressed.

In my first job in sales, the subject of Christmas gifts and entertainment came up. My boss at the time "being much older and wiser than me" told me that a bribe is any gift or favour that might influence ones decision in any way.

He said the best objective or motive for buying a lunch or drinks was to get to know people and to create a relaxed atmosphere were trust could be built and used as the foundation of a more co-operative working relationship, to mutual benefit. So long as that objective is adhered to, I feel it is a grey area but leading toward acceptably ethical behaviour. On such occasions you do not talk commercial business, and try to keep it social, but being technocrats, technical issues tent to be discussed as it is the common interest. That is OK so long as the motive it improved communication and trust.

Gifts that are really only useful in the office are fairly safe, things like desk top organisers, relatively cheap pens or calculators, notepads, diaries etc are all OK so long as your company logo and maybe technical information dominates them enough to make them unfashionable enough to discourage private use. These might come into the cost of doing business categories, as they do promote your companies image and awareness, but do not directly buy favours.

Gifts to the company owners is a lot easier re ethics than gifts to employees. In this case, you can only influence someone to spend their own money, rather than their bosses money. At times I have given a collection of gifts to the owner so he can distribute them to his staff as he sees fit.

Different cultures do have different customs and rules of conduct. It is arrogant to enforce your rules exclusively on someone else and there are many grey areas.

As an example, to tip a waiter in the USA is expected as part of his salary, but to tip a waiter in Germany is seen as unnecessary, as the restaurant owner pays his salary, and it is included in the price. To tip might be an attempt to get better service than the owner wants his staff to give. This extra service might be at the expense of other patrons, thereby diminishing the value of the service they already paid for.

In some poorer countries, part of the expected salary package is the bribes you can acquire and to them, it is not any different to tipping a waiter if it is a known and accepted part of package.

In Japan, it is customary to give little gifts on introduction, and I suspect the purpose is to make you feel a little obliged, but to refuse is a major insult. In this case, one option is to reciprocate with a gift of equal impact, but this is easier said than done when you do not know what to expect.

It is obviously difficult where the different parties are from very different cultures, as one persons unethical behaviour is another's good manners, or another's ethical behaviour is simply seen as bad manners.

Another way for companies to maintain the ethical standards of their country, while maintaining the standards of good conduct in the other companies country is to use a local agent. That way you are not really clean, but you are not arrogant, and yet you are one step removed from the "different practises".

I know some purchasing people who receive dozens of gifts every Christmas, and to "keep it ethical" they donate all gifts to the office Christmas party, where management can devise a method for acceptable redistribution, via door prizes etc.

End of ramble

Regards
pat pprimmer@acay.com.au
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