How long do you think this would take an entry level HVAC engineer?

[ballsonwalls]

To design an HVAC system on the shell and core of a 90,000 S.F. office/lab building with a boiler/chiller plant in a mechanical penthouse, each with primary/secondary pumping, with 2 boilers, 2 chillers and 2 cooling towers. There are a total of 4 VFD air handling units. There is also a 4,000 gallon fuel oil tank on grade so a pumping system had to be designed to pump from the main tank to the two day tanks serving the boilers and diesel generator on the penthouse.

I'm just wondering because I heard from the PM of this job that my boss thinks I took too long on the project (3 months) but I have not seen any of the stuff prior to this project. Now I'm fairly well-versed. If this project is overbudget, but they didn't really pay for any formal training, should I really worry about taking too long? I met all the deadlines, etc.

 

[ballsonwalls]

and all ductwork, exhaust, etc. this was my first project.

 

[lilliput1]

Don't worry about it. It is not your problem. You did your job. Your boss is the one at fault. He underestimated the time it would take to finish the job. Now he is using you as scapegoat. Overbudget is a relative term. Some company uses 3 x their actual cost in sallaries as the budget saying thatis what is needed for overhead. But actually the CEO takes most of it. So don't worry about it. It is the CEO's problem to pay your & his employees salary. I don't think 3 months is excessive of your time is excessive. Your boss probably used up a lot of time attending meetings & coordinating with all other disciplines. But he should have figured them in the job. Rule of the thumb is it is about 250 manhours per drawing.

 

[willard3]

I had the best boss possible as a young Engineer.

I had been working for a long time on a complicated small project and went to ask him if we were making money on the project.

He said: "I don't know. We make money on some and we loose money on some....I'll tell you at the end of the year if we made money. What I want you to do is the best job you know how and let me worry about the money."

Tell your PM to piss off and srop blaming others for his shortcomings.

 

[DrRTU]

You boss is a poor manager. It sounds like he tossed you into the deep end of the pool to see if you could swim. This is a poor style of training or the firm is understaffed. He should have set clear milestone dates and the required man-hours to track the project. Any large project should be reviewed weekly with the senior designers in the office. You could have exposed the firm to major design liabilities as well as losing respect with the client. From what you have stated, you got the design complete and on time – it was just over the hours.

 

[RossABQ]

Start looking for a new job -- this outfit seems like a loser! As stated above, there should be no expectation that an entry level engineer would even know how a primary/secondary system works, let alone do any kind of a decent job by himself.

Keep in mind the PM's usually whine about staff effort, no matter how efficiently the job is executed. Most of them don't have a clue what's involved in design.

 

[PatBethea]

That was a heck of a "first project". I remember my first HVAC project - a 1,500 sq. ft. insurance agency office. Based on the limited information provided, three months doesn't sound too unreasonable. Of course, if I'd have spent 3 months on mine, I'd have been looking for another job in a hurry!

As others have said, it doesn't sound like you've got the greatest supervisor. It can be very frustrating to get feedback like "you took too long" when very little training and assistance is offered. All I can suggest is to take it in stride and learn as much as you can as you go along. I don't know that jumping ship is warranted based on this one instance, but it doesn't hurt to keep your eyes open for other opportunities.

 

[GMcD]

As part of my research on the subject- Ballsonwalls- have you had any formal education on "building systems" and the design and code requirements for a Lab building systems at all? Or are you a freshly minted BSc. Mechanical engineer that took the one semester third year elective for HVAC and building systems? Or was this an "on the job training" process? I just find it hard to believe that a new entry level engineer would be given that size of project to design without them having at least SOME amount of prior training/education on the complexities of Lab HVAC systems.

As others have said- there is no way any responsible supervisor would allow a new designer to get involved all by themselves on a Lab building design considering the huge liability and Code issues involved.

Did that three months occur as full time 40 hours per week on that one job? Did the time include the usual coordination time with the building architect and other consultants on the team?

 

[atlas06]

90,000 SF at $180.00/SF=16.2 million dollars construction cost.
MEP at 4% of total cost: $648,000.00 of that 40% Mechanical, 40% Electrical and 20% Plumbing
that's $259,000.00 for Mechanical in fees.
Your Junior engineer salary in 3 months is what? $12,000.00? may be $16,000.00 with the benefits. It is a drop in the bucket for a project this size.

And no, since it involves ductwork and all as you say, then you've not spent more time. With an engineer's salary, even if it is a core and shell building, your time would've been adequate given your experience.

Any PM that does not issue hours and budget at start of project is not worth a dime.

 

[simsd]

Well Put Atlas06. I think he should take that job you were offering. Then at least he would get some training. I have a feeling they just threw out to the wolves and don't want to live with the consequences.

 

[Vellum]

That is one heck of a project for an entry level engineer and it sounds as if you got little or no mentoring. The time you've spent will be a drop in the bucket if something was omitted in the design due to your inexperience. Hopefully, the project was well reviewed prior to being released.

 

[buzzo]

Thanks for all your words of encouragement. It's just kind of discouraging getting this kind of feedback when I thought I was swimming in this very deep pool farily well.

 

[AbbyNormal]

An entry level guy would be doing the drafting on something like that, not designing it

Take the "V" out of HVAC and you are left with a HAC(k) job.

 

[ChrisConley]

One of the first companies I worked at was like that, always on staff for hours. Finally I got fed up with one particular project manager and asked him if he would prefer me to take the hours to do the job or pay for the lawsuit later.

No hassles after that.