How many hours do you work per week? 31

[curiousmechanical]

Hello All,

I recently spoke with an old college friend and he said that he was working 60 to 70 hours per week. I feel this is way above average, but not unheard of. Anyway, this got me thinking...

I see a lot of salary surveys in trade magazines (Machine Design, Design News, etc.), but they rarely talk about hours worked. In fact, the only time I remember seeing any stats was in a Design News article back in 2008 (see attached). They reported the following:

Average = 49 hours
Median = 46 hours

I think this is important information to have. We need to know what the market trends are in order to know what is expected of us, stay competitive, and make sure we are not taken advantage of.

Would you guys like to trade stats? At the end, I'll work up our numbers.

I'll start us off. I think it would be useful to mention dicipline, region, and company size.

Mechanical Engineer
New Jersey, USA
Average = 45 hrs/week and 3 or 4 Saturdays a year

 

[msquared48]

Everett, WA
Structural/Civil Engineering
Residential, Commercial

For past 2.5 years, averaging only 5 hours per week
This week though, 20'

Shift has been from 95% Structural and 5% Civil 2.5 years ago, to 75% Civil and 25% Structural today.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[nuche1973]

Before:
Sturctural Engineer: I averaged 60+ hours a week over 4 years. I got staight time for anythig over 90 hours. Went on field visits for someone else's project. Gave up Holidays and cancelled vacations for the good of the company. Tried to coordinate new marketing concepts. And it got me laid off.

Now:
Project manager: 40 hours a week. Thus far no complaints.

 

[vandal06]

Electrical Engineer
Anchorage, AK

40hrs/week, a couple of 50 hour weeks (no more than 4 a year) when I'm really busy in the office. A handful of commissioning/testing trips that come up to 60 hour weeks, but those are very rare. I'm salaried, and uncompensated for OT unless in a business quarter I average over 45/week, and then I'm compensated on an hourly basis for hours over that mark (I haven't ever had this). We are very flexible so I generally flex my time for hours worked over 45 in a week.

 

[oldfieldguy]

Electrical guy for a few hundred miles of interstate gas pipeline.

I don't work. I have a hobby with a paycheck, but my timesheet shows forty hours a week. Occasionally I do a late or an early, mainly traveling to one of the stations from my office in the middle of the system, or some meeting or another, but nobody watches me come and go for the most part.

Life is good.



old field guy

 

[xJAyx]

Electrical/Industrial controls
40 hrs per week when I'm in the office, 50-70 when I'm on the road. I don't get paid overtime, and only get to bank time when I work on a weekend. However we are pretty flexible here, officially on paper I need to work my 40, but if I come back off a 60 hour 4 day trip and I shave a few hours it's not a problem.

I used to do project work, paid by the hour and I would work 90+ hour weeks on a regular basis. That was fine for me for a short time, but in the end time is worth more than money, and to me, weekend and evening time is worth more than the time during the day.
When you die you will never wish you worked more. If a company expects you to work more than you are paid for, and it jeopardizes your position if you don't, it's time to either move to a company that vlalues you more, or upgrade your skills.

 

[CivilEngineer401]

No bonus + no paid overtime + crappy salary + no opportunities to move up = no incentive to work a minute beyond 40 hours

 

[Trackfiend]

Gulf Coast (South Louisiana)
Salary (bonuses are rare)
40-50 hrs per week (I've hit 60 a few times)
Any hours after 40 are paid as straight time (not time and a half)

 

[JohnRBaker]

Perhaps that's the difference. Where I work, while there is no paid overtime, we do get merit raises and performance bonuses, so in the end, the extra effort is generally acknowledged and rewarded. Besides, I consider myself as being well compensated, I like what I do, I have a good boss and she, and the rest of the organization, appreciates my contributions, and it's been a good run (I'm coming up on 31 years and hope to work perhaps 3 or 4 more before retiring).

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA

http://www.siemens.com/plm

http://www.plmworld.org/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[Ron]

Southeast US
Mostly structural and construction forensics these days, with design work thrown in.

In the past, working for others, averaged 55 to 60 hours/week. Always on salary. Have never been paid overtime, nor would I expect it. I'm a licensed professional. I won't repeat my diatribe on this subject, as many of you already know my feelings on it.

I now work for myself and bill hours based on time available around family. Could probably focus a bit more and bill a lot more time, but I enjoy what I do and the mix of things I do.

In my last job for others, I was in my office at 4:45 every morning. I enjoyed the time before 7:00 am to get stuff together. I usually was home by 6:00 or 6:30, but also took time during the day to drive my son to school. Only lived 4 miles from the office. Was fortunate enough in my working for others to be in high enough positions that I had flexibility in my schedule, so made the field trips, sports events and such.

If you enjoy what you're doing, give it your all, have a balance with family, and make enough money to support your lifestyle, there's not much more you can ask.

 

[abusementpark]

In the past, working for others, averaged 55 to 60 hours/week. Always on salary. Have never been paid overtime, nor would I expect it. I'm a licensed professional. I won't repeat my diatribe on this subject, as many of you already know my feelings on it.

Why shouldn't an engineer expect to be properly compensated for overtime hours?

IMO, how many overtime hours your employers expect from you and how you will be compensated for those hours (if at all) should be a significant consideration when examining the quality of any existing or potential job.

 

[Ron]

I'll keep it short...

Engineering is a career profession. If you want to be compensated for overtime, put on a short sleeve shirt and a clip-on tie and work at your favorite fast-food restaurant.

Do some employers abuse this premise? Of course. Do engineers, and more importantly, the profession, advance as a result of this premise? Yes.

Engineers have relegated themselves to a second class profession, more often run by accountants than engineers, by compromising professionalism. This is just one example.

 

[abusementpark]

Engineering is a career profession. If you want to be compensated for overtime, put on a short sleeve shirt and a clip-on tie and work at your favorite fast-food restaurant.

I really don't see why overtime compensation is damaging to the perception of a career profession. Whose perception are we worried about?

Do some employers abuse this premise? Of course.

That's the big issue and based on what I have heard from peers and other posters on this board, it is pretty common. What is to stop an employer from piling on an insurmountable amount of work, and then saying "get it done at all costs, you are a professional"? They have every incentive to push that limit as far as they can. There is also the issue of whether or not a proper balance of work is being distributed to all salaried professionals. I've seen the scenario where some departments of a firm work way more overtime than other departments, yet all the salaried employees in the company got the same bonus at the end of year based on overall company profitability.

Do engineers, and more importantly, the profession, advance as a result of this premise? Yes.

How so? IMO, when it becomes common for employees to essentially give away 10-20 hours each week to their employers, then we are devaluing the profession. A fresh graduate making $55k a year and working an average of 15 uncompensated overtime hours is making the same effective hourly rate as person that makes $40k a year. I'd rather be teacher if thats the case.

 

[monkeydog]

Do your medical professionals get paid for the time they put in?
Do you legal professionals get paid for the time they put in?

But, if you are an engineering professional, you are not expected to get paid for the time you put in?
When did the "sucker" stamp get placed on our foreheads?

 

[SomptingGuy]

[rant]

My employer removed our bonus scheme, because it was bad for staff morale. Then they rearranged salary grades, so that we (plebs) can no longer get paid overtime. And then, for for fun, they've introduced a bonus scheme for management grades ... those people who already get a £5k car allowance.

BIG LOUD SWEARY WORDS!!!

- Steve

 

[curiousmechanical]

I didn’t mean for this forum to take this turn, but now that it has, I’m going to throw my thoughts out there too.

It’s clear that most of you are putting in more than my 45 hours/week. If that’s your choice (or you have to in order to stay competitive), I have no problem with that. However, I don’t see the obligation to put in 50 - 60 hours/week. I feel I’m giving them a good deal. I’m good at what I do and I give 100% while I’m there. I’ve heard the “you’re a professional now” and “your job is to get the job done no matter what” comments before and it just sounds like some management nonsense (i.e. scam) to me. Where is the rule book? When I look up the definition of a professional, I just read that it means that we get paid to do what we do.

Don’t get me wrong, I love what I do, but being at work for ten hours is enough for me. I have other things that interest me in life too (and not much time to pursue them as it is). I love hiking too and after a ten hour day hike, I’ve had enough of that as well!

I don’t even have a wife and kids yet and I still feel like I don’t have much free time. I can’t imagine what it’s like to hold down a family and put in a 60 hour work week. I guess I could if I had to, but not as a choice.

To the older guys:

Please put me in check if I’m out of line. I have an open mind and I want to learn. I’m just not getting it. The deal is that I give them work and they pay for it; it’s business. I want to keep my customer happy, so I give them buy 8, get 1 for free. If they want to get greedy, I’ll get a different customer (unless every other engineer is giving them more work for their money).

 

[GregLocock]

My attitude is that I have a certain number of hours in my life. If an employer wishes me to spend my time doing his bidding he'll pay me for it. Since, demonstrably, I make a profit for him when I work, he would be foolish not to do so.


Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[SNORGY]

curiousmechanical:

You owe them 40. Give them an honest (meaning best effort) 40.

Don't let them or anyone else bully you. Life is important; work isn't. "Work" is what you do in order to be able to afford and enjoy "life".

You should only work more than required for one of two reasons:

(1) You need / want the extra money.
(2) You enjoy your "work" enough to make the compromise in your "life".

Don't know how else to put it.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[zdas04]

The difference between clock-watchers and task-watchers is ownership. No one ever told me I had to work unpaid overtime, and when I didn't have ownership in a process I didn't. The one time someone told me that "we have lights and it is quiet around here on the weekends", I started arriving at work when everyone else did, leaving when they left (40 hours a week)--I did that for a year and was miserable the whole time. Interestingly, I was almost exactly as far behind at the end of the year as I was at the beginning, work will expand to fill 110% of the effort available.

My last couple of years working for a salary, my hourly rate (if you assume 40 hours/week) was borderline obscene. My hourly rate based on the hours I worked was quite acceptable.

I WASN'T GETTING PAID FOR MARKING TIME, I WAS GETTING PAID FOR RESULTS.

My employment contract didn't mention expected hours, start times, quitting times, etc. It did say that I was "exempt" from the burden of collecting overtime (a phrase that always amused me). Those of you that think you are getting paid for 40 hours a week (or 35 hours a week in some countries), should really be in a profession with time clocks. There is nothing "wrong" with that mind set, I just see it as a path to considerable personal dissatisfaction. If you are getting paid to do a job that excites you, a job that you hate to walk away from at the end of the day, a job that you can't not think about on the drive home and while watching stupid TV shows in the evening, then I personally think that you have the makings of a happy life.

My last salaried job had three components: (1) I was the "technical authority" for several disciplines and felt that I needed to be available for a bit of most every one's work day (my choice, the person in the job now works 40 hours/week and does not take a cell phone or pager home), I got a lot of satisfaction from solving problems all over the globe with my crappy language skills; (2) I had operational responsibility for a group of gas wells; and (3) I had some of the administrative crap that comes with any senior engineering position. Basically I saw my salary as paying for Job 2 and those parts of Job 3 that I couldn't avoid. I got exactly the same financial benefits from Job 1 as I get from eng-tips.com. I spend a LOT of time here and don't bill anyone for this time. That was the same and if my company got a "free" benefit from it, so did I.

You have absolute control over your own attitude, and if you consider yourself a victim of "unfair" management expectations, then you will be much happier either trying to change your attitude or leaving (don't tell me that "jobs are scarce out there", I'm not saying you should just walk away from a paying job, I'm saying you should start thinking of ways to make yourself happy where you are, there are always ways). If you find it easy to consider just quitting, but feel imprisoned by your salary then you don't have ownership in your job--develop the ownership and the feelings will improve.

David

 

[TxPESE]

Texas
Structural/Civil Engineering
Residential, Commercial, Industrial

-Last 5 years averaging 65 hours per week
-In by 0730 done by 1930
-Work at least 2 weekends a month even if it is a holiday
-No overtime pay, salary

 

[Ron]

zdas04 (David) has said it nicely. You now have two distinct perspectives.

I think David and I speak from similar experiences. Further, we've both been around long enough to see the distinct decline in the professional stature of engineering over the past 30 years. I know I'll step on a few toes in this thread with my next statement, but I fully believe it....much of the decline of our profession is self-invoked by the very attitudes displayed here. Using that attitude, we as a profession, are asking the rest of the world to look at us an any other hourly worker. We are now on par with the auto mechanic, the hourly salesperson, the burger flipper and any of a thousand other jobs. As David noted, there's no dishonor in that, but it does not promote the professionalism that an engineering education and responsibility demand.

Someone above asked if Doctors or Lawyers worked without compensation, implying that they do not. WRONG! I know many examples of both who have done as many of us have....they worked because they thought it was an honorable profession...without regard to getting compensation for each and every hour put in. Doctors often make a lot of money. They don't typically work on an hourly basis but it does work out that way. Most appointments are for 15 or 20 minutes. Flat rate office visit. If the doctor needs to give you an extra 5 or 10 minutes to properly determine your health needs, he will do it...still under the flat rate. The only time that ever gets questioned is when that doctor works for a service run by accountants, not doctors.

Lawyers are a bit more overt about their mercenary ways! They charge by the hour. Most firms that I work with will bring an associate onboard and he will be expected to bill 50 to 60 hours a week until he becomes partner. That's why after a couple of years he'll be pulling down 6 figures.....but never by punching a time clock. Most of the ones I know still give away time to their clients. All of us do that.

I WASN'T GETTING PAID FOR MARKING TIME, I WAS GETTING PAID FOR RESULTS.

That's exactly right. David also mentioned ownership. That can come in the form of company ownership or just the ownership of your own pride in your profession.

I'm proud to be engineer. It is not an easy path, any way you take it. I'm proud that I stuck through the 50, 60 and even 80 hour weeks when necessary. They got better. I progressed financially and in responsibility. I'm proud of the fact that I was selected to be in the top 1% technically in a company known internationally and considered a leader in its field. I'm proud of the fact that I became a corporate officer in that company and another without compromising my engineering involvement or being a corporate weenie.

There was a time when essentially all engineers felt this way about our profession. Much to my dismay, it seems to be a thing of the past. So punch your timeclocks. Grouse about your overtime. You'll soon be replaced by outsourcing. After all, that's what you've asked for.