How much "un-paid" overtime is reasonable? 35

[MotoGP]

Greetings to my fellow engineers:

Several years prior to receiving my undergraduate MechE (1998) and since that time up until the present moment, I have been employed within the "petro-chem-offshore-marine" bailiwick.

Although I have found myself struggling with the specific language to use in this forum, so that I could make a lucid plea for your opinions pertaining to the subject matter, I'm prepared to let this version "fly".

I have been married (my first, and last, hopefully)for three years and have come to realize that my "devotion to my employer" (whatever that is supposed to mean) by working excessive hours over the "normal work week" (whatever that is supposed to mean)has been the result of my attempts at developing a "good will" quotient at work. It is intrusive on my personal life, and I don't have a good concept of "how-much-is-enough".

I mean to express that, at least for now, I still beleive in a law of "reaping-and-sowing" such that I feel that I should "put-in" (hours, other ways of returning value, etc.) before I expect to "get-out" (receiving promotions, salary increases, ensuring a greater likelihood of surviving a corporate re-engineering of its staff, and the like).

It makes me feel foolish now to admit that when I first began my engineering career, I used to scoff under-my-breath about the folks who showed up late, took long lunch brakes and left early every day. I used to admire not the "work-a-holic" but held in high-esteem the company "good-'ol-grinder". However, maybe these people that I once considered as "slackers" really have a more healthy approach to their management of life and a "normal" work week(40 hours?...hoo-ha!).

Does there exist a reasonable approach in dealing with the employer/immediate manager when "un-paid" overtime in the company culture appears to be the norm? Does one reasonably set (only for the purpose of this example) a 10-hour-per-week-limit for an un-paid "overtime-gift" to the employer? Or,is this a contemporarily perverse notion, and simply a matter of discipline and self-teaching to "put-the-calculator-down-at-5:00" and "beat-feet" out of the office?

It just has been the case, again in my bailiwick, that incompetent, lazy, bumblers can be seen receiving just as many kudos (if not more) than those who really seem to always put-forth the "yeoman's effort" (seems to be about 15-20% of employees that fall into this category).

In short (much too late to say that now, I guess) how much extra weekly work should one reasonably provide his/her employer with, that is not compensated by either increased income or vacation time? Could the answer be "0"?

This issue has confounded me ever since I have joined the ranks of the salaried work-world. When I was employed as a refinery operator, I could always count on getting paid for all of the time that I spent at the plant...just as a case-in-point. Should any of you have any thoughts on this matter, I would most genuinely appreciate each and every response. My best regards to all of you.

Pete

 

[Miper]

I always loved doing engineering work in the aircraft industry, often taking the time to learn more than my specific responsibilities required. I ended up working plenty of overtime, most of my own doing, sometimes over 100 hours a week. I never got paid for a minute of overtime. What I did get was a level of respect and support across a broad range of departments and the opportunity to manage several successful new aircraft development and production programs.

Sure, there were difficult times, too; and when I got married I stopped working so much overtime; but I used my job to learn, and I don't regret a minute of overtime. If I weren't so busy consulting now, I'd be tempted to go back and work almost for free.

If you are thinking that you are doing too much overtime, it seems to me that you have deeper issues relative to enjoying your work, having conflicting goals, and feeling used. Some of the above posts have done a great job of sorting these out and of mentioning priorities in life.

Everyone is different. Not everyone likes long working hours; but I have found that the best engineers are the ones who love engineering. And for them, the distinction between work and enjoyment hardly exists (assuming the boss lets them do real engineering). Anyway, enjoying your work needn't mean brutal overtime hours, but it does mean working to get the most personal satisfaction out of your job. That usually involves doing a little bit more than you are asked to do, in order to get a bigger picture of the engineering problems.

Companies in countries with mandated lax vacation and sick leave rules strike me as anti-productive and passive, with workplace rules as regimented and wasteful of talent as a union shop. How do you keep up your initiative and enthusiasm for the job?

 

[Binary]

IMHO, any uncompensated OT is unreasonable. Why is it that engineers should be forced to give our time to companies for free? If circumstances arise that mandate extraordinary effort, engineers should willingly put forth that effort and companies should willingly compensate them for it (pay or 1:1 comp time).

That said, I've put in my share of uncomp'd OT everyplace I've worked. I've also worked for a company that paid OT for fast-tracked projects.

If you work OT because you dig your job and simply want to spend more time there, that's great. However, there should be no expectation on behalf of an employer that its engineers will consistently provide their services for free.

 

[corus]

If you wish to do unpaid overtime then take it home with you,if possible. Take a brief case to work and then put some papers in it to take home. Make sure that you tell everyone though before you leave. On entering the house leave the brief case unopened by the door for when you leave the next day. Everyone will be impressed when you get back to work.
Another trick I've seen on a tv advert is to go out on the evening to a party or whatever and then go back to the office to sleep off the alcohol. The boss is usually the first in to the office in the morning and will think you've worked late and fallen asleep at your desk. Some explanations will be needed, however, if you have your wife/girlfriend/partner/go-go dancer, or whatever, with you.

 

[Cheeseburger]

I have no problem with putting extra time in to finish a project on time (or before a deadline). Or to help out with someone else's project. To me that's the nature of being an Engineer and being a salaried employee. But I do have a problem when it's EXPECTED all the time. Even when there's no rush, no deadline to meet, and all your projects are finished on time or earlier.

I'll meet all my project deadlines, even with little odd projects that my manager throws at me, but if I work an even 40 hour work week or don't put in the "expected" 45 to 50 hours a week, I'm given the lecture about being a TEAM player and how I should put in the extra time.

What happened to being rewarded for getting things done early or on time and not having to work extra ???

 

[GregLocock]

Here's another way to look at it: the megacorporation which happily employs me could, I suppose, sack either myself or my co-worker, and the other of us could then work 74 hours a week, and complete all the work we currently do. Assuming I am the lucky lad who draws the short straw:

Would my work improve? I doubt it.

Would I enjoy it more? Hard to believe.

So who wins? Oh, the shareholders. Well, they are already paying market rates for me. If the business is unprofitable I really doubt that my working for half pay is going to make enough of a difference, since my total annual pay is of the order of 1% of the CEO's annual bonus.

I have just one life to live. My employer is paying me to use hours up from that life in exchange for money which I can use to improve the rest of my hours. I do not think it is unreasonable that they should honour the written contract governing that exchange, as they demand that I honour my part of the same contract.

(I'll hop off the soapbox now)


Cheers

Greg Locock