How to attract good engineers 8

[agthompson]

My company has less than 90 employees, 15 of who are in engineers or engineering support. Products consist of both standard and custom machinery. Our HR person has been inquiring about what makes a company appealing to work for as an engineer and how best to attract good talent. My answer to the first one is lots of interesting problems to work on, the tools and resources to work on them, and reasonable compensation, e.g. pay, benefits and a family friendly work week. What answer would you give her?

 

[IRstuff]

I would find another HR person who knows how to do their job.

TTFN

 

[Nella95]

I think management can be quite key to a happy workplace. Personally, I can make just - just about any work subject matter interesting enough to challenge my mind, but if my boss is a micro-manager or just a real horse's patoot, it's real hard for me to like my job.

 

[Pud]

Call me a cynic, but it sounds like your HR person is updating her cv (resume?)and getting ready for the interview at another engineering company!

 

[HemiBuell]

Pay and benefits is number one by a factor of 10. Anyone who tells you pay and benefits are not important is already making a lot of money.

Maybe you should check out the edition of machine design where the year end job satisfaction survey is published.

 

[DesignerMike]

Management has always been a big issue for me.

Micro-managers, lack of professional respect, and poor descion makers drive me NUTS... It's really hard to feel good about doing a job when you feel management is driving the company into the ground with poor decisions. UNFORTUNATELY the HR person won't be able to change this situation.

I finally got a job working for a small company run by engineers 5 minutes from home...couldn't be happier (unless I won the lottery)

 

[zcp]

Interesting work, good pay / benefits, reasonable work schedule, and managers that can adapt this to the requirements of each individual......similar to what you said.

But more on point to the HR people, I have always found that recruiting engineers is easier if you have

1) cutting edge tools and equipment (software, computers, workspaces)
2) cutting edge work (highly techinical or challenging)
3) engineers in key positions in the company (president, managers, etc.)

People will go for less pay / benefits / time off if you have one of all three of these.

ZCP

http://www.phoenix-engineer.com

 

[diamondjim]

Is the HR person putting your job
out on the market or do you really
need another Engineer?

 

[Chris0164]

Hi I think job satisfaction is the best answer to this. It includes good salary, benefits, flexible working hours challanging problems, good atmosphere amongst collegues and respect for what you are doing for the company. Where I work Project Management and Procurment are the only disciplines that get the credits from the managemnt here.

See you around folks !!

Kind Regard,

Chris

 

[rb1957]

RESPECT ...

chris introduces a good point ... engineers in senior management positions, it doesn't ensure that the company respects and values engineering as a function (rather than as a cost center) particularly if they've gone over to the dark side after only a year or two working as engineers; but at least it gives you a chance.

maybe if engineering is set up as a profit center, rather than a cost center, it shows the bean counters the discrete, short term value of engineering ('cause i don't think anyone can measure the long term value of good engineering ... maybe it used to be called "quality"). a company i worked for did this with one engineering services group, charging for their services (instead of giving them away for free) ... which brings to mind "customer service", but that's another thread ! it worked well for them, they could see a whole bunch of dollars coming in (where before there were none, only the perception of dollars going out).

btw, i liked the comments about maybe the HR person is brushing up their cv

 

[Jabberwocky]

Good points raised about what makes us happy (it isn't just a computer and occasional watering?)

However I must (gasp!) defend this HR person. Call me naive, but it sounds like she was looking for a way to promote the company to other technical types - and in an apparently wise move - decided to ask the techies themselves what they liked. I don't see how an HR person at an engineering company knowing what engineers like equates to job-hopping.

I'd much prefer being asked what I like than being told.

 

[arunmrao]

Retaining an engineer and sustaining his interests in work at high energy levels is a challenge, especially for small companies,where career goals,promotions,etc have limited influence.

It is an art that I have developed in my company with my employees staying with me for the past 15 years. (India). I have withstood the BPO onslaught successfully.

It is easy to make them identify the goals of the company and make them have a feeling of oneness. Be transparent with them in all matters and involve them in matters related to management . Let them know the value of every dollar that comes in .

I do it on a weekly basis ,so that the workmen plan their work. After sometime it becomes fun and is not stressful. I am enjoying that phase of bliss!

 

[agthompson]

Thanks to all for the input.

I can vouch for our HR person, she is a part owner and this was a sincere request as we have been looking for someone for the past several months.

Maybe all the good candidates already have a good computer and a good boss!

 

[swall]

Maybe a minor point, but a company should have a performance review system that can be structured to the engineering job function. Too many companies use a generic MBO type of system that may be fine for managers or marketing types, but is a poor fit to engineers.

 

[Ashereng]

I think I agree with HemiBuell - people who say that money isn't important are usually already financially independent.

My market is currently one of the hottest, not just in the country, but probably in the history of the country.

Most of my friends/colleagues who leave are being bribed to leave with .......$$$$. That's right. Money.

From my perspective, even if you are happy where you are at now - it may change tomorrow. People come and go, retire, etc. Money in the bank is there for you. You can always make new friends and etc. but, money lost, like time, can't be re-couped.

Like they say, you better make hay while the making is good.

If you want to hire good engineers in a tight market, there is a good chance you will have to hire them away from somebody else. To do that, you need to get their attention. People usually notice money.

I'm anticipating the responses to this one.

 

[LeCapitan]

You know I've always had issues with the owners of small companies. The smaller the company is the more micro-manager the owner seems to be...all due respect it is his/her business to flow up on things but haveing this person questioning every little thing I do and ask a billion question also slows down my production level. Give your engineers some room to breath. Do not have any engineers report to you directly. Have there supervisors report to you.

 

[MadMango]

To attract them: post accurate job descriptions to get their attention. During the interview don't limit yourself to a sit-down interview only, take a walk round the plant.

Retaining them is the real challenge.

[green]"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."[/green]
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.
Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[proinwv2]

It sounds as if it has been covered well, completely and candidly but I will add this.

The ability and opportunity to attend an occasional conference, receive professional training when appropriate, and publish if within the bounds of confidentiality.

Paul Ostand

http://www.ostand.com

 

[MikeHalloran]

Don't lie to me.

Tell me what you want.

Tell me what you can afford.

Get out of my way.

Pay me enough so I can worry about other things.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[JStephen]

Thought I'd answered this, but don't see it, so here goes again...

Looking at the employment situation from the other side, it seemed to me that employers wanted people to have extensive experience in EXACTLY whatever field it was they were doing. Of course, the only people who could fulfill this were already working for the competitor companies on the other side of the country, so you have to pay big bucks to lure someone away from a good job, plus get them to move across the country. I didn't quite understand the logic in paying top dollar for the brightest person, while at the same time, assuming he/she was too stupid to learn anything any different from their prior experience.

Room for professional development is good. Variety is good. Vacation is good. Location that you don't have to commute an hour to get to is good. Company that will still be around in 25 years should you decide to stay is good. Good place to live is good (ie, low crime, scenic, good weather). Owner or boss that is not overbearing is good. Actual office as opposed to cubicalville or the 20-guys-in-a-big-room is good.