How's this for respect? 7

[Beggar]

I've read many of the posts about respect, image, etc of the enginering profession. I've just heard a couple of ads that touch on this.

There's a LASIK surgeon in the SF Bay Area who advertises on the radio. They start in his qualifications, "Harvard MD and degreed electrical engineer"

Wow, a doctor considers it a marketing plus to point out he's got an EE degree as an undergrad. Perhaps it's not so dismal as some people think.

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Bring back the HP-15

http://www.hp15c.org

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[jmw]

Advertising
Be cautious about "slick" advertising and/or deals that sound "too good to be true." Remember, they usually are. There is a lot of competition resulting in a great deal of advertising and bidding for your business. Do your homework.

If you want to know more about advertising ethics, do's and don'ts, or want to report on false advertising, explore the following websites:

*

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/menu-ads.htm

*

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/menu-health.htm

This was from the LASIK laser eye surgery page of:

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/LASIK/risks.htm

Now I have to say that this guy needs professional help with his marketing. To me it speaks a bit of desperation. If he wants me to let him use a laser on my eyes he'd better have and equivalent level of expertise in electrical engineering. As joe public that means a PhD to go with the MD. Degree means student. Students think they know everything but don't.

Besides, why does he need to be a "degreed electrical engineer"; is there something that can go wrong with these lasers? am I going to be stuck their on the couch like James Bond (Connery version) while he fumbles around trying to switch it off? ("No Mr Bond, I expect you to die.")

Of course, for engineers to hear engineering mentioned in the same breath as MD might seem like a good idea but ask yourselves, which profession attracts the more malpractise suits?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[GTstartup]

Where's all the "OMG he can't call himself an Engineer without a PE!!!!!" crowd

 

[EddyC]

Whats the persons name? I'll be happy to report him/her for publically refering to themself as an engineer.

Sorry GT startup, unless you have a PE I have no way of knowing what you are. You could be the smartest person in the world or the biggest con artist. But there's no way that you can con the state into granting you a license. Exactly why engineering licensure exists.

 

[GregLocock]

...and that attitude is exactly why it isn't growing.


Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[GTstartup]

Eddyc, if you feel the need to report every person who refers to himself as an engineer without a PE I can at least point you in the right direction. There's this body existing that has the gall to call itself an "institute" of "engineers" and guess what, some of the members are not licensed. I think they go by the acronym IEEE. When you are done with that group, try the Corps of Engineers.

Beggar, do Eddyc a favor and name the doctor to which you refer. Apparently he would be happy to waste his time and report him. Fortunately he is a Lasik surgeon and maybe they can work out a compromise that would improve his short sightedness.

 

[vooter]

Frankly, I think an MD with an engineering degree is damned awesome. It makes a lot of sense, too. I had a pal in undergrad who was a mechanical but had his eyes set on being an MD who made the perfect prostheses.

If the person is practicing as a medical doctor, let him be. He's not advertising engineering services nor is he calling himself an engineer.

 

[icelad]

If I am not mistaken, here in Nashville, over at Vandy, they have a dual degree w/ a masters in ME and a MD. They work in the bio eng field w/ replacement hearts joints etc.
John

 

[icelad]

More info

The Department of Biomedical Engineering is in the School of Engineering. In addition to the M.Eng., M.S. and Ph.D. degrees, the faculty supervises an ABET (Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology) accredited B.E. degree program in biomedical engineering for undergraduate students. The department also participates in the M.S./Ph.D. and the M.D./Ph.D. program with the School of Medicine.

John

 

[Heckler]

If he's in the SF bay area he is most likely trying real in some of those EE from the Silicon Valley....stricking a similarity is my guess

 

[rb1957]

"Frankly, I think an MD with an engineering degree is damned awesome" ...

as McCoy said, "damn it jim, i'm not a mechanic"

 

[sms]

The question is, is he offering engineering services to the public? If so he needs a PE. If he is just telling people he is a degreed electical engineer and is not offering engineering services to the public I think he is ok..Nothing wrong with telling folks what your degrees are.

So is offering lasik surgery a form of engineering service? If so he needs a PE.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[EddyC]

In numerous states, probably including California, it is against that law for anyone to refer to themselves as an engineer unless they have a PE. You are not an engineer because you have a college degree, you are an engineer when the state licenses you. I'm sorry that this offends people, but its the law. If you feel that a college degree is sufficient to classify one as an engineer, then change the law to reflect this.

 

[bioengr82]

EddyC-

I agree with you. However, it is not against the law to say you are a degreed engineer if that is what you are. Beggar said, "Harvard MD and degreed electrical engineer". Nothing wrong there, that is what he is. Do you propose that anyone with a degree and not a liscense take the fifth amendment when asked their credentials? In no way is performing lasik surgery a form of engineering service. Sure its a gimmik, but its a stupid ad. He is just letting everyone know he is a smart cookie, I think this was Beggar's orginal point. Kinda like being able to fly the plane AND design it.

 

[BitTwiddler]

I have been told that if a person is an officially licensed professional engineer (PE) and something goes wrong with one of his designs, he may be held personally responsible for any damages which might be awarded in a legal proceeding.

On the other hand, if he is merely a guy with an engineering degree, the corporation he works for assumes all legal responsibility for any mishaps.

Is there anyone with both a JD and an engineering degree who can confirm or deny the accuracy of what I was told?

Perhaps the engineers who refuse to get a PE have a reason for their inaction. Who wants to volunteer to be sued in today's toxic legal environment?

 

[QCE]

BitTwiddler

I think you are correct in most cases but a PE can/ should buy professional liability insurance for such cases.

But yes a PE means that you take responsibility for your actions and thus are rewarded with the title "professional engineer".

 

[sms]

But, there are a lot of PE's, myself included who never stamp anything, and unless the design is stamped and signed then there is no more liability for the individual than for anyone else with an engineering degree.


-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[BitTwiddler]

Exactly what is the incentive for an engineer to become a licensed PE?

It seems to me that the arguments for and against getting a license are:

Pro:

1) If you are an independent contractor, you might be legally required to have a license to bid for some jobs.

2) It sounds impressive and looks good on a resume.

Con:

1) It takes time and money and a bit of hassle to get the license.

2a) If you do anything which only a PE can do, then you can be sued and lose everything you own unless ...
2b) ... you buy professional insurance.

3) Most "engineering" jobs don't require a license.

If you don't have a specific reason to get it, a PE license seems like a waste of time and money (including insurance money).

I recently read that marriage rates in the US have dropped by 50% since 1970 because of fear of the costs of divorce. This seems to be another case of people shying away from making a commitment because the legal risks are huge and the practical benefits are minimal.

 

[jmw]

Are we looking at this backwards?
Shouldn't we ask how many engineers went on to become MDs?
Come on guys and gals, what's more important?

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SacreBleu]

BitTwiddler,
I hope you aren't discouraging engineers from going for their PE. In structural engineering (building design), anyone without a PE or SE is at huge disadvantage in the job market.