I retrained to do drafting 1997 to 8

[gmahany]

I retrained to do drafting 1997 to 2000 got a job using my new pro/e skills (in silicon valley) for 20 months and was layed off due to corporate restructure, have not been able to find anything since. I’ve read some of the threads and not seen any mention of drafters. My questions are: is there any future in work as a drafter? Do engineers want/need drafter subort for their work? Do companies see drafters as useful? I can do mechanical (Pro/E)or architectural (AutoCAD) Open to any feed back.

 

[Qshake]

From my perspective, many companies are using engineers as technicians. I'm sure there are many reasons for this but the practice baffles me.

For example, in civil sitework/roadway work all the work is done within the CADD package and so there is no need to do calculations by hand and have a technician interpret them and produce a deliverable.

I suspect that this has trickled into other industries as well.

 

[TheTick]

My experience with drafters is that a person who is skilled enough to be a competent drafter quickly becomes skilled enough to move beyond drafting to design and sometimes engineering. Very few exceptions to this.

All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.

 

[electricpete]

I work at a nuc plant. We have about 35 design engineers and about 5 drafters. I don't see drafters going away.

We have lots of small changes to drawings. Engineers marks in pen and ink... drafter puts it on the drawing.

For large modifications creating new drawings normally the engineer or contractor prepares the cad drawing.

 

[PSE]

I agree with electricpete, the companies that I have worked for all had drafters, or detailers if you prefer. The engineers would model out the part and continue working the design/assembly aspects while the detailer would use the model to generate any needed prints. These would be reviewed by the engineer for approval. From my experience an experienced detailer is a valuable individual. They have greater familiarity with drafting standards and are another set of eyes to review the design with.

Unfortunately in the present state of the job market (at least in my area) there were so many engineers cut loose that they started taking up the drafter/detailer positions. One detailer I know spent almost 2 years in finding a "permanent" position. He had to relocate with his family to the other side of the state.

Regards and good luck,

 

[f100]

I find this subject very interesting, for several reasons.
I have been doing mech.design including hydraulics for tracked vehicles in a 40 men engineering enviroment. I have been dooing both extensive calculations and 3D assemby/outlay, but also some detailing. I have been having an excellent cooperation with detailers both for assembly and setails. It is valuable to have someone concentrate on details and formalities which is important for the interface with the planning&production.
I feel it is in the interest of the company to have designers capable of both calculations and drawing/modeling.
I mostly did 3D modeling to variable degrees, leaving out additons of known or standard elements to the detailers.
My experience is from Norway. The job situation being described for the US is very much the same as here. Much deveopment and production is moved abroad, mostly east.
We differ from the US in that as induviduals, we are less willing to move inside our nation.
If we are to compeete with the low wage nations, we have to work smarter. That means changes to our work situation and ways to do management.
First. Engineers must have a more decisive role in the running of companies.
Second: The enginners must be more interdisiplinary. Mechanical engineers must know more basic eletronics and how about controllers, amplifires, busses etc. And the other way around. That means more education.
A would assume this is contrary to most accepted management theories as it makes the processes less distinct. It is easier to manage groups with well defined interfaces between them.
However today's practice tend to cement current solutions.
I think the fact that inovations mostly comes from smaller companies with few people, supports my point.
Some companies must be larger. So what should they do.
The solution:
Pay for people with thorough knowledge in 2 to 3 areas. Not just introductory to an area. Loosen up the organization and let some step in the neighbour's flower bed. It will produce some noise and rumble. It is not good for the organization.
But it will improve productivity in the end.
Or we can continue like today and hope to survive untill all others are asking the same salary.
Or we may ask less for the same work.
Not to mention if the others work smarter (more clever) than us in addition to asking less.
I am not discussing ethics here. Just alternatives.
I am aware that the last part might seem on the side of the main subject. But it has to do with gmemany finding work fit for him in the future. And many others who has chosen some area of engineering as their main occupation.

 

[genes]

I was watching PBS the Friday before the holiday. The subject was the loss of technical jobs in the US. 500,000 per year. Of little concern to me was the previous losses of manufacturing jobs to foreigners because I am a CAD designer and it didn't really affect me. This is my 30th year as a designer, heavy equipment, automotive, aircraft, and now HVAC. The PBS article proposed that in 5 years most of the technical jobs will be performed outside of this country. An engineer here makes about 55k average, in India 5.9k. Drafters much less than that. Did you know that your A T & T service calls are piped to India? Well, you're not supposed to. The most frightening aspect of the article was not about losing technical jobs. It was about our US economy. Technical jobs are the backbone of the middle class in America. It is predicted that in 15 years our infrastructure will collapse due to loss of middle class jobs and their tax payments. The survivors of all this? OEM'S and military technical jobs. So, my spin. If you're 57 now you might make it to retirement. If you're 40-50ish like me you're screwed and you'll never re-train for a job that pays what you're getting now. If you're 39 and under, get back in college or pick a trade that can't be routed overseas. Good luck. Remember, your mileage may vary.

 

[WingnPrayer]

I can relate to gmahany's question pertaining to Drafting's future. I am an on the ropes Drafter, myself. In my small town I have been lucky to even have a second chance at it starting in 1997.
I had been a Sr. Tech Illustrator/Drafter, with no degree, in Southern California from 1980 until 1988, then having to return to Central Texas to aid in a family health situation. Afterwards, I had the opporturnity to return to a good Drafting & Design school (graduated in 1990). Armed with an Associate Degree (Electromechanical Design), and some prior experience, I was only able to find a 3-month contract job. It wasn't until 1997 was I finally able to find a more permanent Drafting job using Mechanical Desktop to design power converters and aircraft batteries.
The company lost a Boeing contract a couple of years later, so layoffs ensued. Since then, I have at least been able to stay in Drafting, but only in Structural Design.
I am now wondering why I'm having trouble finding Drafting work. Maybe I've been too flexible and it's now working against me. Technical Illustration to Electromechanical, then to Structural. I'm not able to move to a larger job market where I think it would be a little easier to remain in one field of Drafting.


Faith: Your heart knowing there's an ocean before your eyes get there to see it...

 

[genes]

To WingnPrayer,
I like that tag. That's a good name to have. I think you should continue to diversify your skill set if you want to stay in this biz. Part 2 of the PBS article I saw dealt with I believe an Electrical Engineer who had lost his job due to outsourcing. He scrambled to retrain and re-educate himself to no avail. In the end, he focused on a job, any job, that could not be outsourced to India or China. He chose routing cable TV wires for a cable company. The pay was nothing and he and his wife had to change their lifestyle. His reasoning for accepting this job? There is no way someone in India can use your hammer and your drill and nail that cable to a house. Some type of wireless connection makes his long term prospects pretty dim, but you see what I mean. If you really want to be more secure, choose an occupation where those with the money will need your services. Can you change the prop's on a 200k boat for 60 bucks an hour? My uncle walked out of Boeing one day twenty years ago to do that and never looked back. I'd judge your age to be about 44. Retirement is probably not until you're 67. Choose your path wisely.

 

[pablo02]

Do not overlook the small engineering firms -- in some respects, they will not farm much of their work oversees, on the other side, they don't pay what the big firms "use" to pay... however, their work is more influenced by the economy and the "opportunities for a new adventure" can not be ruled out...

my current company uses drafters/designers in some of the areas where drafting needs are heavy: piping, structural -- the engineers still do much of the drafting work when it comes to P&ID's and electrical work... we do contract with other firms when the work load is heavy..

it's a tough world out there and who knows what will exist 10 years down the road -- it'll be a lot different than it is today

 

[onlyadrafter]

Hello,

I presume most of the authors of the previous, if not all, statements are in the USA.

In the UK I have been a draughtsman/drafter/detailer for 15 years, my present employer has recently made a designer redundant. The drawings we create are new products, as well as configurations of existing designs. The designer has little input into these configurations, as the rules/design has already been established.

The designers are paid more than us, which I don't object to, as my salary is well above average, for the position, in this area.

I can't see there not being a drafter here, as the products designed are always for a range of sizes, so they create one model, give us the rules, and we create the detail drawings for manufacture. The designer hasn't got enough time to full detail/dimension all the drawings required.

However, we are looking at automating the configured drawings by using parametrics, so eventually the amount of work will drop.

I believe there will always be a position somewhere for a drafter, but these will become less and less, so it will be harder to find new positions. But to balance this the number of people entering Engineering is dwindling, so there is less competition from new people.

Developments in CAD packages probably will make the role of a drafter obsolete, but probably not in the near future.

Also, the drafters here received a pay rise of double the standard at this company.

Chin up, there is bound to be a position somewhere, it is just a matter of finding it, and having the luck of obtaining it, as the competition is tough.

All I can suggest is try to learn as many different packages as possible, Pro-E, AUTOCAD, and others that I can't thik of at the moment. The more string to your bows the more likelehood of finding new positions. I would also recommend learning, EXCEL, WORD, POWERPOINT.

Drafers are seen as important here, as any problems with the drawings/design are directed to us, again not to bother the desingner who is trying to invent the next money-making product.



----------------------------------
Hope this helps.
----------------------------------

maybe only a drafter
but the best user at this company!

 

[PSE]

Without exception, the places I have worked have always maintained at least one drafting individual for keeping drawings updated as the result of engineering changes. It's not glamorous by any means but if you have the right mindset, you can become quite valuable. I have received some very good insights from drafters that made me a better engineer overall.

onlyadrafter makes a good point on trying to learn various packages. Remaining versatile can be essential.

Regards,

 

[WingnPrayer]

Thanks, genes, Pablo02, onlyadrafter, & PSE. I was relating to gmahany about difficulties during these times. I am encouraged by the responses. As money is running out, here, I may have to find something else to do in order to maintain the house payments (Night stocking the local grocery store?), but I will keep on trying to find a Drafting job. One would have to leave this town in order to expand in his Drafting Programs (more strings on the guitar?), but I am willing.
I have also slightly modified my contact info on my resume to include a friend's address that is local to the D/FW area, a 100-mile commute, but again, I am willing. The little experiment has paid off with 4 requests for an interview in about a 10-day time span. However, one employment agency has "busted" me by calling the additional phone #. She said that whoever answered her call never heard of me. I, then, called my friend who replied that no such call ever came. One of the interviews was good and that job is still pending. I return to the Dallas/Fort Worth area this Monday for another interview, this time with another employment agency. The other two positions have been closed. I can handle that. At least my little experiment told me what I wanted to know. My location is something of a problem to Dallas/Fort Worth area employers. I just wish I could relate to them that I used to live and work in the Los Angeles Basin where a 40-mile commute took at least 3 hours one way. This commute from Waco to either D/FW ("Nawth&quot or even down to the Austin area (South) is 100 miles and because of the wide open freeways can be traversed in a little more than half of that time (1 1/2 to 2 hours).
I really hope that Drafting has a future. Early on in my adulthood I prayed about what I could do the rest of my life, took all the aptitude tests at this area's Jr. Colleges and according to the results of every responsible authoritive person in Personnel Placement, I am doing what I ought to be doing. Even a recent employer administered a profile test to the whole department and, again, I am where I should be. If my Higher Power has blessed me in one way, I believe it's been in drawing.
All my life I've been "busted" drawing. Even in Jr. High Biology class, my instructor was walking around the class while lecturing only to find me drawing the (then new) Ford SOHC 427 engine and placing it into a variety of self-designed hotrods and other vehicles, including a couple of drag racing boats. I remember him telling me to "Put that nonsense aside, focus on the Biology lesson, where someday you could get a real job. What kind of job do you hope to get with these drawings?", he would ask..... I kinda wish I could look up that old Jr. High School teacher, nowdays, and just show him, LOL.

Thanks again, folks, for the encouragement. Especially genes' encouragement, because her estimate of my age being 44 is a real compliment.

Faith: Your heart knowing there's an ocean before your eyes get there to see it...

 

[paulgrant999]

> In the end, he focused on a job, any job, that could not be outsourced to India or China. He chose routing cable TV wires for a cable company. The pay was nothing and he and his wife had to change their lifestyle. His reasoning for accepting this job? There is no way someone in India can use your hammer and your drill and nail that cable to a house.

... Yeah they can; they can import them under L1 and H1-B visa's (willing to work longer hours for less pay).
Take for example, nursing - experienced 3rd world nurses are being hired away from their hospitals to come to work in the US -- they know more than nurses with little no experience, yet they are willing to work for the same pay.

Gentlemen, we are screwed.