Illinois won't accept my education toward my SE application 3

[Mike Mike]

I have a bachelor's in Physics from University of Wisconsin, a master's in civil (structural) from Marquette University, and 5 years work experience. Illinois said they would consider a bachelor's in civil from Marquette to be worth (4) years of experience, but they said a master's in civil (structural) from Marquette is worth nothing. Does anyone have any idea how to appeal the committee's decision? Illinois told me their is no way to appeal, but I would like to spend some time and resources fighting. Any tips anyone has for me would be greatly appreciated.

 

[MIStructE_IRE]

We have similar issues with certain colleges in this part of the world too. The content and quality of some college courses, very few, is not considered to meet the standards of some institutions and the degree is therefore not recognised.

There may be other, longer routes, to chartership. But your appeal sill likely fall on deaf ears.

 

[JLNJ]

IL looks for structural specific design courses over and above the general physics and mechanics of materials type courses. A degree in physics doesn’t offer many of those. I’m not sure what you needed for an MSCE degree at Marquette, but maybe that coursework wasn’t rigorous enough in structural design classes.

You might get them to tell you exactly what counts and what doesn’t from your transcript, but it is highly unlikely they will change their minds. IL is legendary in this regard.

I had been a structural PE in responsible charge in a neighboring state for 20+ years and passed the SE II exam on my first go, essentially without studying (all hand-written, SE II passing % rates were in the mid-teens at the time). I proudly went to IL to show them what I had done. IL wouldn’t accept my application because 25 years earlier I took the Civil PE exam rather than the SE I exam (I don’t remember the SE I even being offered then). I found this very odd. I should have just ponied up and taken the SE I right then I suppose, but IL licensure wasn’t critical to my work stream. It was just a matter of pride.

This seems a little high and mighty for a State who has had 5 of their last 7 governors serve time in jail for corruption! Plus this State is broke. C’est la vie!

 

[phamENG]

It probably has to do with ABET accreditation. ABET accredits bachelors and masters programs separately. Just because the BSCE is accredited, doesn't mean the MSCE is. Most states only accept ABET accredited course work/degree programs. I just checked - Marquette's MSCE is not listed on ABET's webiste.

 

[Lomarandil]

And further, ABET will only accredit either a BS or MS program from any one university. Not both. So most universities choose to have the BS accredited.

----
just call me Lo.

 

[rb1957]

I had similar experience when I applied for my local engineering licence (PEO) … overseas education, 10+ years experience. They wanted me to do a bunch on exams … Eff that ! So they said "ok, sit a board interview". So I sat the interview, spoke with three guys (engineers I guess) who had no idea about my field. One of the best stories I have from my career is this interview … I was explaining some of the work I'd been doing (on aircraft) "on a nacelle"; one guy asked "nacelle ? what's that ?", I looked at him and (with a straight face) said "where the engine is, like on Star Trek".

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[JedClampett]

It sounds like you can burn a lot of time appealing, just miss the test deadline and get the commensurate experience in the meantime.
It's funny, they easily took my BS and ME from my school. From the University of Illinois

 

[WARose]

That's kind of interesting because IIRC, their educational requirements border on what you would expect for a masters.

 

[KootK]

IL is legendary in this regard.

Yuppers. My Illinois story:

1) No interest in my M.Sc from Marquette. Back to the ABET thing.

2) Said my no-name Canadian B.Eng was worthless because the courses didn't have enough hours. Got this straightened eventually as we just report hours differently in Canada.

3) Eventually did accept my no-name Canadian B.Eng. Again with the ABET. According to some accord, CBET = ABET. And IL WILL follow their own rules without fuss.

4) Zero credit for the first two years of my B.Eng because that was really a three year tech school thing. Fair enough.

5) I've written,and received, a lot of letters from IL. Not a group that responds, in any way, to applied persuasion. They do it their way, at their pace.

6) I got it done but it was nearly a four year thing start to finish.

7) One year when I was dealing with some time consuming health stuff, I accidentally let my IL expire. I won't ever, ever do that again even if I'm concurrently dying of pancreatic cancer and tied up in some cave in Afghanistan. Full on audits on my CE etc and threats to have me do it again from scratch.

Frustrating as it's been, I do applaud their efforts to protect structural's little monopoly in IL. I've made some easy money designing scraps of metal stuck to the sides of cell phone towers just because my clients didn't have an SE in house and couldn't find one externally willing to demean themselves by doing such unglamorous work. Fortunately, KootK likes money. And needs to make up some serious ROI on his IL license.

 

[r13]

Illinois does not take master degree into account, bachelor degree in Civil Engineering is the key. You shall try to apply for Illinois' EIT exam, if permitted, then apply for SE exam. A PHD friend of mine went through exactly that route, as his undergraduate work was oversea.

 

[KootK]

Architects can still be SE's in IL, right? There were times when I wondered if that might not be the easier route.

 

[r13]

It was the same for Architects, enough credits on Civil studies and passing EIT.

 

[r13]

Another way maybe feasible. If you have PE from any states that having reciprocity agreement with Illinois, most of Midwest states do.

 

[Ron247]

I guess things have changed a lot since I got my PE. Are you saying they will accept a 4 year bachelors degree as being equal to 4 years of work experience in the field you are getting a license in? Or are you saying they will accept it as 4 years of education?

 

[Settingsun]

Ron247, thought I was the only person wondering that. Work experience counts; degree shows you aren't self-taught from World Trade Centre websites.

 

[WARose]

@ the OP.....at least you won't have to worry about renewal. (The good news.) I just got renewal notification via e-mail for Ill. and (on top of all the other CE requirements) there is now a "1-hr Sexual Harassment Prevention Training" CE requirement.

I can just imagine some of the questions on that quiz.

Now I have to find a provider that has such a course.

 

[JedClampett]

WARose, SEAOI has a free harassment Training module for members. They charge $50 for non members.
Who knew I'd have to be trained on something that I'm already good at?

 

[gtaw]

There's a joke in there, but I figured that a muddy puddle best left be.

Best regards - Al

 

[WARose]

They charge $50 for non members.

$50 for one CEU? Don't like it.....but may not have a choice as my normal provider has no such course.

 

[dik]

This type of action was the first time I realised the professional associations weren't 'worth the powder to blow....'. We had a new student in Class in first or second year. The association would not recognise his degree, but the university would. The association insisted he take a year of engineering at university. He graduated with a masters. It was only running into him about a decade later that I found out the story of why he left our class.

Has anyone done a statistical analysis to see if PDH works... has there been a marked improvement in the profession after it was implemented? If not, engineers continue to waste 1000s of hours complying to it. I bet you there has been 0 change...

Dik