Immature co-worker 8

[TrailingEdge]

Our engineering department was recently required to hire a university graduate due to /ahem/ reasons. Best not to ask why. We have been put into a difficult situation with this person, and I would like to ask for ideas on how to make the best of it.

This person has several problems at play, including knowledge and skills gaps, but overall I have come to believe that this person has never had to take anything seriously before in his life. The cause of this may be the /ahem/ reason mentioned above. To be clear, the issues do not include antisocial behaviour or rudeness - not at all. The person is pleasant enough to talk to, but only insofar as you would talk to a drinking buddy. As soon as you try to talk business, out comes the disrespect. You are often interrupted by their opinion. Offer them a correction, you endure an explanation why they thought they were right in the first place. Explain a method, you get an explanation of another one that doesn't work. I often quote Luke Skywalker "Every word of what you just said is wrong".

A few sample quotes:
"Why don't you just weld the door shut?" [when asked to draw a figure showing a door handle removal procedure]
"But that will take me all day!" [when asked to convert a batch of drawings from one CAD format to another]
"What is this?" [holding a rivet, the most common fastener in the aerospace industry]
"I just specified glue on all surfaces to make sure that it would stick" [on the inside and outside of the hose]

I could go on, but some of you may believe me less and less, the more I write. Since this guy cannot competently do anything, every task requires more hours of supervision than it would take for the supervisor to do it himself. At this point 4 people have tried to step into the supervision role (including myself) and we have all emerged in disbelief. We even have an intern who is trying. I hear them argue, too.

This is becoming a distraction and a burden for many people in the department. I would say I am proud of my engineering team, except for this person. We have some other newly hired people, who are shining, I must add. The intern I mentioned is awesome, but dealing with this person may discourage him from coming back to my company after he graduates. Any on-the-job training activities for the new (permanent) hires will include him by default. The effectiveness of their training is being reduced by his interference. I was planning several more training sessions but postponed them, to the detriment of the other new people.

Are there any suggestions on how to deal with this? How to reduce the pain? How to maintain encouragement and support for the other new hires?
Please remember that the appropriate solution is not possible.

 

[IRstuff]

I'm guessing nepotism?

So, why bother then, since he's unproductive and you wind up unproductive trying to make him productive?

If he never has to face the consequences of failing, then he will never try to do anything at all, since it's completely irrelevant to his continued employment.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[GregLocock]

Since you are in a senior position then you have to acquire some guts and sort this out with management. Or suck it up and ignore it. There is no third way. Yes there is, send him off on an international fact finding tour. Useful phrases "competitor benchmarking", "market opportunities", etc etc. or send him off to do an MBA.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

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[TrailingEdge]

So, why bother then, since he's unproductive and you wind up unproductive trying to make him productive?

Because he's making a half-dozen other people less productive. And diluting the skills training of 2 others. Third reason is the morale of everyone.

MBA

Interesting idea. Is there a danger that this would make him more likely to return, able to inflict even more damage?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

You are often interrupted by their opinion. Offer them a correction, you endure an explanation why they thought they were right in the first place. Explain a method, you get an explanation of another one that doesn't work. I often quote Luke Skywalker "Every word of what you just said is wrong".

This describes a previous coworker to a 'T' (though my troublemaker was in his mid-50's, not a fresh grad, so you knew he wasn't going to change his personality). Everyone, including management, did their best to bring him into the fold, but nothing ever worked. After months of getting a continually shorter level of patience with him, I just started interrupting him back... comments like "That's wrong, and we're not going to discuss it any further" and "Do your job as it has been explained to you, not how YOU think it should be done" were quite common. Luckily the problem somewhat resolved itself when he decided to leave town, then it completely resolved itself when he resigned. One of the most painful years I've ever experienced in my career. It's no exaggeration to say there wasn't a single unhappy individual in the company when they were informed of his final departure (and I include not just engineering and management, but HR, IT/MIS, building maintenance, and front-end staff).

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and start putting people in their place... they won't get it any other way (and even THEN they don't always get it, as evidenced above).

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[IRstuff]

Nothing quite that bad, but bad enough that everyone hated them. We have a GREAT going-away party; it was surprising, but maybe it was because we "forgot" to invite them.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[TrailingEdge]

A few weeks ago, I pulled the fellow aside in a private spot and tried to ask why there wasn't any effort being put into their activities, what I could do to help. Even tried to lay out what's expected of them. More explicitly than one would normally expect to need explaining. All I got back was "No, I don't want to work here". There was a lot more talk from him, but so much of it nonsense that I couldn't retain any coherent message.

I'm a real "hire for attitude, train for skill" kind of person. I really want my (nascent) management style to show that.
This situation is sending the wrong message to all the other departments in the company.

 

[IRstuff]

Ok, again, since they don't want to be there, but they can't get fired, just leave them to surf the web or whatever and just work on the stuff that's productive.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[tygerdawg]

I've got a similar situation with a troubling co-worker. I feel your pain, bro.
For about 5 years now he seems to be untouchable. I've documented violations of ethics, performance, falsehoods, safety, schedule attainment, and so on. It is so illogical that one assumes this co-worker has incriminating photographs of the leadership engaged in strange behavior with goats or something. The one word that describes this individual is UNTRUSTWORTHY.

After much thinking (and prayers) I had a revelation and it is summarized in one verb: MARGINALIZE.

I have done much more than my share to making the system work (requiring LOTS of long, hard hours), doing the extra effort to improve our work environment, and so on. Without complaint. I have stopped openly complaining about this person. At the same time, though, clearly communicating to the leadership these conditions in a non-accusatory manner. I have also started a heavy Public Relations campaign showing the improvements that I have accomplished, broadcasting the improvements I made for the betterment of the team and work environment. Those accomplishments and significant improvements are there for all to see, and those things SHOULD have been done by this other person. Now after about 10 months many people are starting to ask hard questions and see the truth. This person is no longer asked or invited to do stuff. He comes in to the work space, goes to his office, and closes his door all day long. He needs to be invited to abruptly go work somewhere else, but in the meantime I will take his isolation and non-participation as a win because it reduces the damage and frustration he can cause. This entire unfortunate incident reminds me of the quote "Beware the fury of the patient man."

I would much rather have this person as an active participatory team member whom could be trusted. I don't think that will ever happen though. Some folks just simply aren't wired that way.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[truckandbus]

In the general case (not where the individual is untouchable) I've learned to pull the HR trigger sooner rather than later and let them handle the reporting, modified work plans, training, etc. Trying to solve the problem on your own and letting unacceptable behaviour continue to the point it can be claimed it is acceptable isn't the way to go.

For this untouchable person, find out what it is they DO want to be doing and see what it takes to make that happen.

If this is a case of nepotism, talk to the sponsor and tell them this individual does not want the position they have and see if the sponsor can adjust that attitude

 

[CWB1]

Are you the supervisor? If so, walk them out or go tell yours that you cannot effectively lead your subordinates. If you are not the supervisor then tell the supervisor that significant issues exist and that they need to address the situation. In either case, A supervisor needs to step up as a leader to take definitive action to resolve this silly drama.

 

[TrailingEdge]

Unfortunately, our engineering department has no explicit "ranks" to define who supervises whom. The more senior of us (in experience, not tenure at this company) tend to supervise the juniors. So this fellow reports to me because many other do too, because that's just what I've been volunteering to do all along. Nothing formal.

Given this unofficial role, I'm not out of line to speak with HR. I didn't think they could do much until I read Truck and Bus comments and realized I should start there, no matter what I do. Even expecting that it won't help, it would establish my use of "proper channels" before going higher up. This will not be a quick process, so I have to start soon.

I can frame the HR discussion as "how to help" and look for solutions. Must carefully steer away from a b**** session.

 

[CWB1]

Nothing formal.

So who hired him? Who writes his performance reviews? Who approves their time card, vacation time, etc? Ultimately they are the one who should be handling this. Having a senior engineer lead a project team is common but that doesn't make them a supervisor. Ultimately everybody should have a clearly defined supervisor/manager/boss within the larger org chart to handle hiring/firing, administrative, and HR'esque duties like this.

 

[cvg]

give him the Penske file

https://screenrant.com/seinfeld-george-costanzas-jobs-ranked/

 

[Ron247]

At age 35, I would have told whoever is his safety net person/relative that I would rather work 1 man short than have him as a worker. He slows down the other people and makes them less productive. I have done this in the past and the safety net person (not relative) said, "Damn, you are the 3rd person to tell me that". I did not realize 2 survey crews had already said the same thing. It is better to be one man short than to have him.

At age 62, I would ask him what he wants to do at the firm. If he is not interested, I would challenge him to convince his safety net relative he needs to go elsewhere "to fulfill his amazing potential". After all, someone who is terrible has "more potential" than someone who is constantly succeeding.

 

[DM61850]

I think that this isn't the case and is sidetracking but maybe he or you are not in the right place.

There are small company and big company employees. A small company employee gets frustrated in a large company due to their inability to fix all the things that should be fixed and biggest problem is just interfacing with a lot of groups and people. A premium is just placed on just getting people on board with solutions. At a small company, a premium is placed on being able to fix a lot of problems and often without a lot of oversight or the need to get consensus from a large group of people. In my opinion, people usually fit into on hat or the other if they have any serious interest in their profession. Your coworker might just be a great large company employee who would get along perfectly wearing fewer technical hats and working with people and not problems. Maybe, you are at a large company and don't realize you are a small company employee. Maybe, you think the premium at your place is on fixing problems and it is really just on working with groups of people and you just don't see why your coworker is kept on or why your work is not as valued. Whatever he is doing might be seen as enough to the powers that be and your problem solving is not valued or is overlooked. I have worked at large companies that always complained about not having technical people but when push came to shove all the technical work was outsourced to consultants even when it could have been done internally and a person in management just flat out told me we don't need technical people, we can just get consultants. Check where you are.

 

[ProEpro]

Ask the sponsor what they wanted this person to learn. Is it a good work ethic or just the company's processes and products?

Maybe they need a rotation through the company to learn the different departments. Would a month or two in the shop on the dock give them some perspective?

Sometimes there is another "untouchable" person that can be their mentor and explain things to them.

If it is the situation where you will be working for that person someday would you rather be their yes man or the one that give it to them straight?

This is one of the trade offs a of a family business.