Inspector's Bad Ground Call 1

[unclesyd]

I had to move the power pole for my shop about 10' as my old ground 3/8" EC Copper 16 ft long is going to be covered up. I installed a new ground made from EC Copper 3/4" rod with 1/4" bore x 20' long and hooked every thing up. It was inspected yesterday and when I went out to get the number off the inspection ticket for the power company the ground was noted as not up to code and had not passed inspection no other explanation.
It is a only a 100 Amp Main and the local codes say 3/8" copper or 1/2" copper plated steel ground rod.

What could be the reason for the inspectors call?

 

[skiier]

unclesyd
Pls more information about your install;

1/ pls tell me what "EC" stands for here.

2/Where is the main service disconnect in relation to the pole and gnd rod? Is the main service disconnect on the pole?

3/ The gnd is "driven" in at the pole or is it layed in the gnd?

4/ Where are you located?

5/ Are u using approved bonding connectors? Are they brass or brass/copper type connectors. Does the conductor to the gnd rod in your area need to be looped?

The inspector may not have liked the gnd rod location. The local inspection authority may require your rod to be closer to the main service disconnect. For example, if you have a meter on the pole are you mistakenly bonding the "common" or "wht" wire in the meter base to your gnd rod at the pole? Most inspection authoritys require you to bond the white wire to your gnd rod at the main service disconnect and this gnd rod will be as close to the main service disconnect as possible. Well it does in Ontario but it may be different where u are.
Please elaborate.

 

[unclesyd]

The EC is a term we used for Electrical Conductor or Electrolytic Copper. It is 99.95% Cu and we used it for electrical feeds to an electrolytic chemical process. This particular rod is probably OFHC.

The main service disconnect is on the pole at present. It is 5' off the ground and right above the ground rod. The grounding wire is about 3/32 dia bare Copper.

The ground rod point was driven into wet sand with about 1' sticking out. It is located about 6" from the pole.

In North West Florida.

All the wiring connections you mention are correct and using approved connectors.

From what I read into the rejection notice he is objecting to the ground rod itself.

Could it be that the rod is not solid? I have more area than any requirement that I'm aware of.

 

[jbartos]

Suggestion: Utilities usually have a "book" where various requirements of this nature are listed.
Please, notice that NFPA 70-2002 NEC does not cover grounding rods (electrodes) themselves. It only covers connections to them.
Products are not covered by NEC, they are covered or complying with industry standards.
The older NEC e.g. 1996 has the following requirements that may have been violated:
Article 250-83 Made and Other Electrodes.
(c) Rod and Pipe Electrodes.
(3) ...The upper end of the electrode shall be flush with or bellow ground level unless the aboveground end and the grounding electrode conductor attachment are protected against physical damage as specified in Section 250-117.

 

[busbar]

There are NRTL-labeled copperweld-like rods. Maybe that was what he was looking for? I think some consider the UL stamp near its top as evidence that the rod was not sawed off.

Might he buy into a <25O fall-of-potential [3-lead ground-resistance] test as reasoanble proof it will do the job?

 

[jbartos]

Suggestion: Adhere to the current NFPA 70-2002 Article 250.52 &quot;Grounding Electrodes&quot;:
(G) Rod and Pipe Electrodes, regarding the electrode flush

 

[jghrist]

Maybe the inspector measured the resistance and it was over 25&[ignore]Omega;[/ignore], in which case a second ground rod would be required.

 

[advidana]

Why don't you call the inspector and ask him what he wants or explain the the ticket. The ground rod may not be the issue, could be that something else about the ground or installtion he thinks is not to code.

 

[stevenal]

Non-ferrous rods need to be listed. Your copper bus pipe is not likely to be listed as a ground rod. Two are likely to be required and need to be driven below grade as others have said. NEC 250.52A5, 250.53G, 250.56.

 

[dpc]

advidana is right, you'll have to get an explanation from the inspector. It could be anything. I never heard of an inspector who wasn't an expert in grounding, at least in their own mind.

 

[skiier]

Ouch DPC. Some inspectors seem to know more than they actaully do.
I generally find Inspectors are the least educated in the Electrical Trade. So many end up as &quot;Cliff Claven&quot; types who a appear as &quot;knowledge gods&quot; to even less educated Electricians. And when you question them they almost always manage to find a defect with your installation. So what I do is create a defect for the inspector to find so that he can &quot;teach&quot; me about the evils of the defect I created. My installlations are always up to code but I have one inspector who always finds some trivial unimportant little thing to hold up the installation. Not that they won't turn the power on but just that they want some defect corrected.
I have even gone to the Inspector's supervisor to have a &quot;defect&quot; ruling overturned. I disagreed with his call so I protested it and won.
I know I will offend people here but I run into these types of Inspector's al the time. Maybe your's is just like this.

 

[dpc]

Like all of us, inspectors are individuals and each has strengths and weaknesses. Most of my experience has been on industrial facilities and this is unfamiliar territory to most inspectors, who spend much of their time dealing with residential and small commercial installations.

I think they often zero in on grounding because it looks familiar and they feel they are on safe ground (so to speak).

I generally try to accommodate minor changes, even if I don't agree with the necessity just to keep a good relationship. It always good to leave the other person a way out with dignity that allows them to save face. You tend to run into the same people again in this business.

 

[skiier]

absoloutely right DPC. i couldn't agree with you more. I bite my lip alot now than when I younger. If you let the other &quot;save face&quot; then they tend to like you and guess what, life is easier.

 

[unclesyd]

A little update on my problem. Lost a couple of days work due thunderstorms and lightening in the area. A little info on lightening in this area. I have a GE lightening arrester and it saved me in 2002 as I took a direct shot from the power companies pole. This bolt got the transformer and fuse (disintegrated) and got my GE arrester. This was the second time a GE had saved me.

Both the cable company and telephone company have hooked their grounds to the ground wire from the box to the ground rod. I ask the telephone guy did he see anything wrong with the ground and he said that everything checks out. The box still has the sticker that was put on 5 years ago, nothing has changed except I do have a larger ground wire and new larger ground rod and clamp.

I drove the rod deeper to almost level with the ground as suggested and cleaned the ground clamps, had a patina from storage, and changed the screws in the clamp. The distance to concrete is 11&quot;, no way nothing could get in and damage the ground wire or rod.

I tried to get a quote from an reputable electrical contractor to put his sticker on the box. His answer was $1750 to set a new pole and box. He would use a treated pole 6&quot;.25# CCA and mine is a 9&quot; .8# CCA pole. My box is a GE with GE breakers he couldn't tell me who’s box he would use. Will not check my setup out. I asked about doing a test of the ground as mentioned in the posts and his answer was that the test was a waste of his time and my money.

I was very nice and ask for another inspection and if I could get an explanation of the problem. The answer was short and sweet, we are not in the contracting business and we will get back to you as time permits. I am getting the idea that they don't like me doing the work. I was very nice and do have one thing going for me as it's an election year.

All this and I used to be charge of over inspectors for a large chemical company.

Thanks very much for everyone’s help and suggestions. I will post the results of the next inspection and if I am here maybe I’ll get an explanation.
Will coffee and donuts or maybe lunch help.

 

[jbartos]

Comment based on the previous posting: It pays off to have a good grounding system including hardware and workmanship.

 

[stevenal]

We didn't say "almost to ground level" We said at or below. Below is prefered since ground level can change. I agree that testing is a waste of time and money, since the code allows you to simply drive a second rod and avoid any testing. I suggest you go to the library and look up the requirements before proceeding, though. You will save time for all if you make an attempt to meet code before scheduling a second inspection.

 

[jbartos]

Suggestion: The Utility may have a book including the Utility special requirements with various illustrations. The electrical contractors tend to follow it. If available, it might clarify the shortcoming.

 

[pennsy]

unclesyd:
Did you follow the 2002 NEC.
An outside pole should not be a problem.
But you only noted that you drove ONE ground rod the NEC requires there be 2 if you can not prove that you have the minimum resistance of 25 ohms to ground.
If you drive two then you will be covered and will not have to prove the " 25 ohms " to ground. (I have no idea where this number comes from)
Another thing to check is to make sure that the 'main bonding jumper is properly installed.
Another thing is the rod should be at least flush with the
surface of the earth if not it is to be protected.
Finally the connectors are supposed to be 'listed' for direct burial'.
For a 100 amp service No. 8 copper is to be used as the grounding electrode conductor. but must be protected, ie in conduit if in metal conduit that is ridgid it also must be bonded at both ends, so use PVC.
Easier is to use No. 6 bare stranded and then you avoid the protection clause and it can follow the contour ot the pole into the ground. The No. 6 can be strapped right to the pole.
Good luck
WOC

 

[skiier]

Pennsy
Pls tell me. Just how are you measuring the gnd resistance value - between what 2 points? And what device are u using to measure this resistance value?
Been in the trade for a long time and I haven't got a clear answer for these questions yet! Can u answer me?
Shouldn't the gnd "resistance" between any 2 points in your "properly gnded, properly bonded elctrical system" be so small as be unmeasurable?Oris this mysterious 25ohm value the maximum "resistivity" of the earth between any 2 points measured "thru the earth"? Huh.? And just how do you measure this without 2 or more gnd stakes and performing tests on the earth without a"zero balancing" meter such as a "Miller" meter.
Pleasedon't say "ohms to gnd". You are confusing me!

 

[jghrist]

skiier,

See Understanding Ground Resistance Testing at

http://www.aemc.com/techinfo/techworkbooks/ground_resistance_testers/950-WKBK-GROUND.pdf