Interviewing while still employed 6

[FullMetalBracket]

For reasons that probably deserve a thread of their own, I've decided it's time to leave my current employer.

I had an interview a few weeks ago, and decided it was best to take the entire day off (using vacation time) to avoid going in with the negativity and frustration I often feel when leaving my current job. The interview went very well and I am fairly confident I will get an offer, however I will likely need to go meet with them again before everything is finalized (another day off...). On top of this, I have an upcoming phone interview with an out-of-town employer. If this were to go well I assume they would require me to travel out to meet them in person (ie more time off required).

I am afraid I have already aroused suspicion from my boss and when it does come time to resign he will look back on these days off here and there and realize I had been looking elsewhere for a good month or so. When I resign he may be put in a tight spot due to the current state of things. If I told him now I was looking elsewhere he could already be looking for a replacement, however if neither of these opportunities work out I will be in a tight spot (I'd rather be employed and looking for a job then unemployed and looking for a job, obviously).

I guess I just need some general advice. Does it make any sense to warn them of my impending departure to avoid burning bridges? How do you manage taking interviews elsewhere while still working a job? Should I just give my two weeks notice and free myself of my current job (financially not a problem, I just don't want to lose negotiating leverage or look like someone who might just up and quit at any moment)?

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[ScottyUK]

Tell them nothing until you have a firm offer, have passed whatever medical and background checks are needed, possibly balanced a ball on your nose or jumped through a hoop to amuse the HR weenies. When all that is done, tell your current employer and do your best to provide an orderly handover to whoever is picking up your work. Leave on good terms, but leave on your terms too.

In terms of interviews, I think what you are doing is perfectly acceptable. I disagree with those who feign sickness to attend an interview - that's definitely unethical and possibly unlawful too.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[casseopeia]

You are letting your irrational guilt over leaving your current employer cloud your mind. People take random days off for any number of personal reasons such as meeting with a divorce lawyer, paternity hearings, court appearance for child custody, traffic violations or to obtain a temporary restraining order against a neighbor, to visit sick relatives in distant places, to fulfill court-ordered community service, to attend parenting classes, etc.

All you really need to tell them is that you are dealing with a personal situation where you are not able to give much advance notice, but that you would let them know as soon as possible of the days when you need to be absent. If they press for information, tell them that it's very personal and that you would rather discuss things when you know more details and leave it at that.

If it helps, choose a situation and think about what would be required if that were the case. In paternity cases for instance, you'd need a day to meet and hire and attorney and explain the circumstances of your case (interview #1). Then you would need another day during negotiations to provide a DNA sample, (interview #2). If it got to the point of court, you'd need 2-3 days for that (overnight trip to a distant interview).

Don't lie about where you are going and what you are doing. I'm suggesting that you create a situation in your own mind that could be a reasonable alternate explanation for your absence to calm your fears that your boss is a psychic and knows exactly why and where you are going. He doesn't know and you don't need to say.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[IRstuff]

It really depends totally on your specific relationship with your manager and management. If there is little or no relationship, then the usual two week notice is adequate. If you have mroe than just a pure subordinate/manager relationship, then something more might be in order.

I've given 1 month notices the last two times I quit without any repercussions whatsoever.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[FutureCSE]

Do you feel your employer would inform you that they are interviewing potential replacements for your position? I wouldn't feel obligated to tell them I was looking for another job, but wouldn't deny it if they came out and asked.

 

[TheTick]

Part of takng vacatin time is that it is YOUR tme an you owe n explanation for how it is spent.

 

[weab]

You are making too much out of this. This is business. You owe nothing to your current employer but proper notice if you decide to leave. Two weeks notice is standard procedure unless you work in some line of work where a month is standard (unlikely).

A good, reasonable boss expects no more, knows that people change jobs, and will not hold this against you. If he does, then he is unprofessional and you are doing good by leaving.

If you have reasonably decent relationship with your boss, he might want to know about your vacation time. Heck, I always ask about coworker's time off - "Hey, whatcha got goin' on? Getting new countertops installed?". If you respond that it's personal, he should let it go as friends would. If your relationship is poor and he insists, continue to insist that you cannot say. If he asks if it's an interview (only a real jerk would ask this), THEN he might deserve a straight out lie. If you think he might ask, then be prepared and practice saying this while keeping eye contact.

Really, don't sweat this. This happens everyday.

 

[jmw]

The reason your boss might be suspicious is because you are taking vacation days at short notice. He probably knows exactly what is going on.
He can't figure out any other reason why you aren't taking "sickies", those days some employees feel they should take off for no good reason at all and represent a holiday equivalent.

Do not feel guilty. You owe no more loyalty or responsibility to the company than you can expect them to show you (usually nil).

Suppose you let on you are considering other jobs.
And now suppose you don't get the offer you want at this time.
Chances are you will see your own job being advertised and fellow workers who can't wait for you to go so they can apply.
Depending on the country you are in they may even just let you go.

The alternative is that they know they will have a job to replace you and in which case, probably without letting on they know, they will try to sweeten the pot for you. Indeed, they may even counter offer if you accept a job and hand in your notice, but don't be fooled.
As often as not these are just holding measures till they can line up someone who will take your job at less than your old salary and then let you go.

That you looking for a new job is no ones business but your own.
Your first responsibility is to you and your family. Your employer usually comes a long way down the "need to know" list and don't expect your sensitivity to be reciprocated. They will happily let go long term employees for no good reason except to say "responsibility to the shareholders" even if it is some well recognised vendetta by some useless manager somewhere.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[HDS]

It is always easier to find a job when you have a job. You are just more attractive when you are employed (just like you are more attractive when you have a girlfriend).

Never put in notice until you have a written offer. Nothing else means anything. I have even seen written offers that were withdrawn.

 

[cksh]

Never tell them you are thinking of leaving, let alone interviewing.

Don't ever feel guilty (I have trouble myself). They would lay you off in a heartbeat if things went downhill.

If you still worry about taking the time off try to schedule interviews on Monday's or Friday's. Make it look like you are really taking a vacation.

But I have never had trouble taking days off in the middle of the week. My employers were always surprised I was leaving.

Some employers will make an extra effort to interview after hours. Never hurts to ask. It helps if you can leave an hour early.

 

[rbulsara]

What ScottyUK said...

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[Noway2]

I have one comment on the never quit until you have a written offer. I would suggest that you expand that to include, have a written offer that you find acceptable, have signed it, sent it back to them and VERIFIED that they have received it.

 

[jmw]

And accepted it.... this is offer and counter offer.
Depends where you are.
They make an offer which, if it is accepted as it stands, gives you a reasonable case to claim you have a contract once you have ensured they have received it.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Debaser]

I think similar questions have been asked before and to me they seem very 'American'.

That is, in the UK, (and before the down turn) in the branch of civil engineering I know, people were always looking for other jobs and having interviews without a thought to the feelings of their bosses. It's a fairly 'promiscuous' profession where everyone will eventually work with everyone else and we all end up with probably 2 or 3 degrees of separation at most from any other person in this field. So long as we work our notice (generally one month) no-one gets upset. It's a job, even if it is a profession, if you get what I mean.

In the US, on the other hand, it seems you can be escorted off the premises the moment you hand in your resignation, but people still feel some deep responsibility to their employer.

Don't forget, right now it's generally a buyers market, with employers having the upper hand. Unless you're incredibly specialised I can't see there'll be a lack of suitable applicants once your old job's advertised.

 

[IRstuff]

The US is still in the throes of adjustment from an era of "lifetime" employment, to one where "at will" employment has a much more drastic and abrupt meaning.

Escorting off the premises immediately is nothing new. We had a "Black Tuesday" in 1986, where those that had immediate layoff were given 1 hour to clean out their cubes. Their severance would be mailed to them, end of story.

This brings up the interesting divergence between the notion of an employer firing you willy nilly, while you, particularly if you're PE, has to maintain relatively high standard of ethics. So, the notion of you slinking off in the night to a new place of employment does have a ring of less than full transparency. At the same time, there was a portion of the group that was on "layoff notice" because they were still needed to finish their projects. So, obviously, the company took advantage of the engineers' professionalism, while showing none themselves.

The "say nothing until the last possible moment" sentiment is perhaps justified, when directed to the nebulous "company" but oughtn't be de rigueur when it comes to your direct manager, particularly if your relationship is fairly good. Obviously, if your relationship involves poison pills, or daily rants, or the like, then the sooner it ends. the better for you, at any rate.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[KirbyWan]

All good points. I particularly agree with Cassiopeia. One additional idea. If you can schedule your interviews for mondays or fridays it will look less suspicous and more like you're taking a three day weekend, a very common occurance. Also if you do get a mid week interview you could schedule a teeth cleaning with your dentist the same day, then you are just taking off for a dental visit, which is easy to assume you will need to recover from. And you will have nice clean teeth for your interview.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

 

[philmech]

You should feel no obligation whatsoever to let your current employer know you are looking for another job. From the way you describe your job, it doesn't sound like they are making an effort to make your job more satisfying.

However, once you find a job, you should make every effort to make the transition smooth. Give them a reasonable amount of notice (the length depends on your particular job) and make every effort to coordinate with whomever will be taking over your responsibilities.

 

[KENAT]

The rule of thumb would probably be not to say anything, and don't quit till you have something lined up.

However, it is a rule of thumb, and there are exceptions.

When I moved from the UK to the US I was fairly open with my my direct management about it for a few months in advance. However, I didn't give a formal resignation letter until I had all the visa etc. sorted. This was in a place where I had a good relationship with my my chain of report all the way up to the owner (the CFO wasn't in my chain of report - he was the only person whose nose was bent out of shape).

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[HDS]

Is you boss suspicious because you are slaking off? Keep up the good work and he will not be able to complain even if thinks he knows what you are doing.

I know one guy that works as hard as he can before he quits because he wants them to notice when he is gone. He likes to brag that they needed 3 people to replace me.

 

[DWHA]

Well, I just gave my 2 weeks yesterday. Boss was dissapointed and said that he wished I would have let him know what was going on sooner. But how can one really do that? I am very fortunate that my current boss is a great guy and after asking me a few questions about what went into my decision, said if I ever want my job back to give him a call.

I am so happy that there are no hard feelings. These next 2 weeks will be weird enough.