Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007 28

[Randy1111]

3 years ago when I was last in a postition needing to evaluate and decide on a 3d cad package, the choice was quite easy. 3 years ago solidworks had the tools needed, and inventor was playing catch up. Now 3 years later I'm once again tasked with deciding, but the race seems a lot closer.

My company makes pulleys. The assemblies are small. A typical assembly may only have 8 parts. (adding bearings may bring this up to 50) The variety of sizes of each of those parts is almost endless. Each part we manufacture has almost infinite sizes. Each purchased part like bearings, is one of a hundred or so variations.

I like to automate as much as possible. Every style will be pre done as an assembly with all drawings. When a new job comes in we change every part parameter in an assembly, and have the already done drawing update. Clean it up, and print. (with solidworks this would be done with a design table at assembly level controlling a skeleton sketch and all parts drawn in contect and constrained to the skeleton)

Inventor used to lack configurations. Now it has them.
Soliworks used to lack drawing functions. Now it has them.
Solidworks still lacks good equations and global variables.
Inventor still lacks in some tools it has.

I guess both are able to do the job for me. Inventor has caught up quickly. Will it pass solidworks in the next few years?
Any comparasin I've read in the last couple months while researching has always been versions of a few years ago. Back when the biggest points were configurations and design tables. Now that distinction appears gone.

To anyone who is familiar with both in their current state, do you have any insight that might sway me one way or another?

How is autodesk vault compared to pdmworks?

Jarery


-------------

Randy

 

[rich942]

Here's just one example:

http://wohlersassociates.com/press38.htm

There are many others on the subscription-only sites of organizations that track the industry, Daratech and Dataquest for example, as I posted much earlier in this thread. But a quick Google search will yield numerous free sources of this same information. The numbers speak clearly, Inventor outsells its direct competitors.

 

[ctopher]

rich,
Good info, but was for 2004.
I know of a few companies that in the past 12 months have switched from Inventor to SolidWorks. It is slowly moving that direction at our company now.

Curious, who is Autodesk Inventor's direct competitors? We usually only hear about SolidWorks or SolidEdge. CATIA is not a competitor, probably less seats sold than Inv, but a different league of its own. (same for UGS)

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[rich942]

I just knew that someone would point out that the data was from 2004 ! Give these guys a break, it takes time to compile accurate data ! This is typical in the software industry, and others as well. Its considerably more meaningful than speculation based on job postings ! I'm confident that the 2006 report will reflect a continuation of this trend.

If you saw the entire report (we have a copy here), you would appreciate the care in validating active seat count data, its done with real surveys, taken independently, not marketing hype.

As I posted previously, our decision here to discontinue the use of SW, and replace those seats with Inventor, was based on two things, SW's offshore origins (security concerns), and instability with large assemblies. When our SW VAR couldn't resolve the rejection of Toolbox parts by PDMWorks, a directive was issued company-wide to switch our approx 150 engineering seats to IV. The reaction has been overwhelmingly positive !

 

[ctopher]

Rich, I'm not bashing you. You give good input. Thank you.
"SW's offshore origins (security concerns)"??
Interesting. I have not experienced it myself. I have been doing military/space designs for major USA & Europe military projects, through ITAR, and never had an issue with SW and security. It has been in the contracts that we use SolidWorks from Dassault. In some cases, they prefer it.
I know it takes time for the data to come through. But, IMO I can't see how the data can be accurate. I have seen CAD software purchased from a VAR, but the info is not translated back to the manufacturer. I have checked it with SW and Autodesk.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[J-C]

From cadcamnet.com these are the commercial seats sold each quarter. These numbers come from the venders themselves.

http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=06aug24adsk04largeuv9.jpg

Security issue again....I think I pointed out that Autodesk had more jobs for chinese programmers than Solidworks did....wait.... Solidworks doesn't list any jobs in Asia. They have some development in the UK and in other parts of Europe and they use GSSL in India for some of the add-ins....the rest is here in the states. Autodesk on the other hand:

http://autodesk.recruitmax.com/ENG/candidates/default.cfm?szCategory=JobList&szFormat=search

http://autodesk.recruitmax.com/ENG/candidates/default.cfm?szCategory=JobList&szFormat=search

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[bpeirson]

I have noticed that a relationship between job postings and installed seats is repeatedly brought up.

There is no relationship, we recently posted a job listing solidworks as an attempt to determine if we would have to train employees ourselves.

If noone applies with solidworks experience then that means we will have to train which means extra expense. We may not buy solidworks based on that.

Hence, 1 job listing = 0 installed seats.

 

[ctopher]

I would not pass SolidWorks based on that.
You should see demo's of each CAD software and pick what is best for your company.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[J-C]

bpeirson...thats true....but someone could equally post a job about Inventor for the same reason. Theres no reason to say that this reason applies more to Solidworks than it does Iventor or Solidedge.

I shouldn't say that jobs indicates seats out there. You can't tell that. Just that there are more Swx jobs than IV jobs and thus you can conclude that there is more Solidworks being used than IV by that saem ratio. Maybe Autodesk is shipping more IV out there than Swx...but it doesn't appear that its being used more. Wonder how many active MDT users are out there?

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[Areva]

According to an article in WorldCAD Access Inventor sales have slipped 60% over the last 4 quarters. Here is a link:

http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/

Scroll down and look under the heading “How Will Buzz Reverse the Dip?”

 

[rich942]

Security issue again....I think I pointed out that Autodesk had more jobs for chinese programmers than Solidworks did....

The Autodesk jobs posted for China are for mostly marketing and tech support positions, not core function programmers. To the best of my knowledge, Autodesk has never suffered a major breach of security.

On the other hand, the uncompiled source code for SW was stolen and offered for sale by an employee of Geometric Software Solutions, as reported by Businessweek Magazine in 2004.

When I developed add-ons for AutoCAD, I had no need for uncompiled source code to do my work. The presence of SW source code in India clearly indicates outsourcing, a distasteful practice, and one that often delivers sub-standard results. Bills have been introduced into Congress, and will be again, to ban the use of foreign-owned and developed software by US defense contractors. We are simply anticipating that here ...

 

[J-C]

Tech support...really?

http://autodesk.recruitmax.com/ENG/...ndidateID=0&szSearchWords=&szReturnToSearch=1

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[rich942]

Its no secret that Autodesk, like most major software companies, maintains field offices overseas, where applications for specific customers are developed. I still see no evidence that Inventor source code resides anywhere outside of the US. There is a great difference between local customer service and outsourcing to India.

 

[ctopher]

Outsourced to India or not, it all comes back to the USA for recheck of code anyway.

Back to Inv 11 vs SW 07 ...
I'll still take SW 07 over Inv anytime, whatever the argument.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[J-C]

Doesn't get much clearer than this......

59135-Prog./SW Eng. 3 Posted 03-Aug-2006
Location: Shanghai, CN - Pidemco Tower


Design, prototype, write, test, and debug source code of AutoCAD features. Require skills:



Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[rich942]

You're suggesting that AutoCAD is programmed in China ? I'm sure that the folks in San Rafael would be surprised to hear this ! What is the relevance of local AutoCAD customization to Inventor ?

If you still have any doubt about the presence of SW application source code in India:

http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/solidworks/select/grabowski_sourcecode.htm

 

[J-C]

I'm not suggesting...its pretty clear from that job posting thats from the Autodesk website that some amount of programming is occuring in China. Perhaps its an add-in or some obscure feature...I don't know. But the job clearly states that its located in Sanghai China and that they are looking someone to program something in Autocad. Search the Autodesk jobs....there are other programming jobs as well for other Autodesk programs like 3d studio max, etc.

And I never said I had doubts that someone in India got a hold of the source code for SolidWorks. People steal things all the time that don't belong to them.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[ctopher]

I'll bet Microsoft uses someone within India at some point. Most of us use Windows.
I believe Autodesk also uses someone within India, to some degree. But, I don't care who does. Inv and SW could be from the same company and will still use SW over Inv.
Anybody here try to design a part using either? IMO, SW is more powerful and more user friendly.
Here at my job I support SW and AutoCAD, but not Inventor.
Here, Inventor is considered an etch-a-sketch compared to SolidWorks, UG or CATIA.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[rich942]

I have read references to Microsoft's experiments with Indian outsourcing. As I recall, the results were less than satisfactory, and the practice was abandoned. However, I cannot document this. It was some years ago ...

I HAVE had first-hand experience with drafting work farmed out to a company in Bombay. Virtually all of it had to be reworked in the US, at great expense. It was an embarrassment to the managers who championed this "cost-cutting" measure.

I have never seen a single reference that would indicate that Autodesk has ever outsourced, they have no need to. They are a billion dollar company with deep domestic resources. I have followed their progress since 1985. If they engaged in this questionable practice, I'm certain that competitors would make it known.

And I have witnessed the initial impression that Inventor is a simplistic application, even here, with new users. Remember, Inventor installs in "novice mode", to ease the transition for 2D users. Accessing the advanced features is as simple as activating the toolbars. There you will find features that you will perhaps see in other 3D CAD programs in the future. I enjoy using them today !

Inv and SW could be from the same company and will still use SW over Inv.

Interesting observation ! I do wish that Autodesk had simply purchased SW, when it was up for sale in 1996. Then all of this confusion would never have been necessary. But at the time, by all accounts, they had no interest in a Parasolid-based modeler, when they already had an ACIS-based product in the works.

 

[J-C]

I posted a reference that shows their use of outsourced programmers....are you blind? And how is their outsourcing questionable....its fairly common practise. There can be a price to pay and sometimes you get what you pay for but sometimes it works.

And you are quiet arrogant to think us Americans are the only ones capable of creating a quality product.

I'm sure IV has some features that other don't but the door swings both ways and depends o what you get used to. As I've heard...there are still no multi bodies, no configurations, and its missing many of the surfacing features that Solidworks has....not to mention many of the surfacing and curve capabilities that UG and Catia have.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP4.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[aardvarkdw]

Any chance that we could stop rehashing this tired old argument? Jason is never going to convince Rich and vice versa.

I personaly have learned both SW and IV side by side, completing identical projects on both platforms. I found that inventor was easier to use and got me my desired result quicker. On the otherhand Solidworks was a more robust program and it had features that were able to accomplish specific tasks better than inventor (ie; surfaces and configurations). I chose IV as my software of choice because it suits my logic style better and is better for me. I still love SW as well and would gladly use it if the company I work for used it, but my preference is inventor.

Now, if we are done hijacking this thread for yet another SW vs IV, who is outsourcing to who and why this makes one or the other the antichrist, debate, I for one am through caring. If we are going to get back to the OP's original question of which is better for a company that designs pullies, let us please do so.

David