Inv 11 vs Solidworks 2007 28

[Randy1111]

3 years ago when I was last in a postition needing to evaluate and decide on a 3d cad package, the choice was quite easy. 3 years ago solidworks had the tools needed, and inventor was playing catch up. Now 3 years later I'm once again tasked with deciding, but the race seems a lot closer.

My company makes pulleys. The assemblies are small. A typical assembly may only have 8 parts. (adding bearings may bring this up to 50) The variety of sizes of each of those parts is almost endless. Each part we manufacture has almost infinite sizes. Each purchased part like bearings, is one of a hundred or so variations.

I like to automate as much as possible. Every style will be pre done as an assembly with all drawings. When a new job comes in we change every part parameter in an assembly, and have the already done drawing update. Clean it up, and print. (with solidworks this would be done with a design table at assembly level controlling a skeleton sketch and all parts drawn in contect and constrained to the skeleton)

Inventor used to lack configurations. Now it has them.
Soliworks used to lack drawing functions. Now it has them.
Solidworks still lacks good equations and global variables.
Inventor still lacks in some tools it has.

I guess both are able to do the job for me. Inventor has caught up quickly. Will it pass solidworks in the next few years?
Any comparasin I've read in the last couple months while researching has always been versions of a few years ago. Back when the biggest points were configurations and design tables. Now that distinction appears gone.

To anyone who is familiar with both in their current state, do you have any insight that might sway me one way or another?

How is autodesk vault compared to pdmworks?

Jarery


-------------

Randy

 

[rich942]

It has never been my intention to convince any current 3D CAD software user that they made a poor choice, everyone here, and elsewhere, is entitled to believe whatever pleases them. Just to present a fair and balanced source for real-world information about Inventor, among posts that frequently indicate a deep-seated emotional dislike for Autodesk and their products.

My concern is for the potential new users, poised to recommend a software selection to their employers. They deserve to make their choice free of the influence of misinformation and distortion of facts.

 

[Diemaker1]

This thread is still going strong eh? I think the SW guys have the IVers out numbered and hittng hard. Hehe.

Jasons account of IV’s 11 highlights is pretty accurate IMHO. I’ll do some addendums. Not meant to take away from what Jason took the time to say, but add to them.

1. functional design is just a marketing term they are using to instill an impression of superiority. There’s no magic functional design wand. The only thing they have SW doesn’t is an add-on they bought from mechsoft. Fill in a bunch of numbers and it will draw a shaft or gear or something else. Not sure how many use it. I bet most people use vendor models downloaded using PartStream. Hehe.

2. IV drawing environment was a pleasure to use. I liked making prints in IV more than making models. With SW it’s the opposite, models are a pleasure and drawing a pain. I had plenty of models that wouldn’t section in IV. IV dwg export is better than SW. SW07 made big improvements though.

3. The only difference in IV and SW I see is IV could “Select” entities in the preview window. SW is much better for importing acad “geometry”. SW will apply a Fuzz to endpoints and auto add constraints. 07’s “fully define sketch” is outstanding. SW is not good for importing a whole print with text and blocks and Acads special entity types like tables. Does anyone import that stuff?

4. Grips are pretty cool for concept messing around stuff. They are bad to use on models because they delete equations which IVer’s use a lot. SW has some OK tools for making real models “stretchy”. “override dims on drag” allows sketch to be drug and dims update. Equations actually update to the drag size. And the new spinwheel is real cool for dimensionally stretching a sketch. I thought feature generator was kind of a toy. You can do the same thing with library parts.

5. IV’s CC is pitiful right now. I swear, some of the model I’ve seen makes me believe Adsk paid some Indian business to create cheap bare bones representations. Time will tell if Vendors will support it.

6. One thing that gets me about Acad… it been quite dormant. There are so many obvious tools that took them decades to implement. With in a day of drawing I could tink of a hundered things acad could add. Like, why doesn’t Acad have a dimension tool that knows what kind of dim to add based on picks? But instead they so often re-write existing functions that end up being 2 steps forward and 1 back. Now that I’ve seen SW, I think, wow, that’s ingenious. Makes me think of all the people I’ve run into that said Cadkey was superior to acad. And maybe they were right. And if Adsk didn’t give away acad, crushing Cadkey, I’d have a better 2d cad.

7. IV rendering is… like Technicolor. It is vibrant and gleams with luster. I would not call it photo-realistic, you could call it Phony-realistic, hehe. You know,realer than real. But it is very pleasing to look at. It really makes you say wow. Do people REALLY need rendering? It’s fun, but I can’t imagine contracts are actually won because of rendering differences. Maybe, society is so shallow these days.

8. I did a few boms with r10. it was painful. I think they had the concept right though. I haven’t use SW bom yet. After using IV, I’m scared too.

9. From what I’ve read, you need PHD in computer science to use vault.

10. If SW didn’t have edrawing, IV wouldn’t have dwf. Well, they would, but it would still be what it was originally created for… view acad files on the web. IV tries to add that same phony-relistic quality to DWF’s. if viewed just right it’s beautiful. But many other view angles are darkly shaded. I sent a dwf to customer once. He said it was like looking at the dark side of the moon. He could only see half of it. Edrawing may look cartoonish, but you can see everything. You know, medical text books are filled with hand drawn “cartoons” that convey information much better than a picture. I always send my Edrawings to the end customer as .exe files. Adsk states you have to have edrawing pro to do something, but what they don’t say is that SW Pro (which you get edraw pro) is pretty much the standard version, costing LESS than IVS and doesn’t mention that you have to pay extra for measuring and markups with dwf, which comes std in edrawings.

11. I wish SW would redesign it’s board so it would draw more activity. It’s the only SW forum with instant upload which is sooo good for getting problems solved. Adsk.com is very active, many IV programmers stop in there too. Questions are immediately answered. Unless you’re a diemaker. Even Adsk knows diemakers shouldn’t use IV.

I wasn’t going to respond to this thread again, but when I saw that brochure FILLED with SW sucks, IV is great… it pissed me off. What children Adsk have become promoting themselves with smear tactics.

 

[ctopher]

Diemaker1,
Very good, a star!
By the way, I have used SolidWorks PhotoWorks to win a major USAF contract through L-M. A great tool!

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[65Roses]

Rich doesn't the fact that there are so many of us "deep-seated emotional dislike for Autodesk and their products" folks out there say something about Autodesk. I think that is important information for any potential buyer. I wonder how we got to be that way? Hum?

 

[DeSimulacra]

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse but I'm still evaluating CAD software and really liked this article. It is a little dated but still holds true.

http://www.synthx.com/articles/articles.html

 

[DeSimulacra]

Opps ..See the articles on Wildfire

 

[cookieman]

I wasn’t going to respond to this thread again, but when I saw that brochure FILLED with SW sucks, IV is great… it pissed me off.

I searched this PDF again carefully, and found no such language. just because you don't agree is no reason to accuse autodesk of "smear tactics". are they not entitled to publish comparisons, as other do ?

I have noticed that most of the criticisms of IV here start with, "I bet", I feel", or "I heard", hardly the same as published reports from industry sources. c'mon guys, keep it professional, a bit less anger and spite, and more facts !

 

[rich942]

A star for cookieman ! So much has been posted here by SW users who have clearly never seen or used Inventor, and in many cases have simply repeated comments made by SW VARs and users. All is fair in love and software sales, I suppose, but I would hope that any serious readers of this thread, who are in the process of choosing between IV and SW, will have the wisdom to contact their local Autodesk VAR, and get an in-house demo, utilizing their own requirements. Only then can you make an informed decision as to which program best fulfills your particular needs.

And again, as I have posted previously, look closely into the organizations behind the various products, this has everything to do with their relative merits !

 

[ctopher]

I think anyone seriously looking at 3D CAD software, should see demo's for SolidWorks, Inventor, SolidEdge, ProE, UGS and CATIA. (not in that order).
Not just SolidWorks and Inventor.

Chris
Systems Analyst, I.S.
SolidWorks 06 4.1/PDMWorks 06
AutoCAD 06
ctopher's home (updated 06-21-06)

 

[DeSimulacra]

QUESTION? How many people really use Inventor?? The post on a bad bug is true. How could it be that it takes that long to find that bad and that dangerous a bug???
I must be using Inventor wrong, so what do I do so I can change a dim. in .idw?

 

[G1DESIGN]

ctopher i hear what you are saying with try as many as you can this is my opinion only

for me it goes like this

solidworks
inventor
solidedge

these compete wth each other,the midstream cad packages, in my experience solidworks comes out tops because i can make it do what iwant with the least work arounds and compares similarily with the way i use the big cad apps i have limited experience of solidedge but have never heard of anyone slate it

when the inventor tech support asks me what i want to do and then goes to prove me wrong i can pull up 4 different packages that do what i want to without the oh you do it like thisline that seems to be prevalent

after my rant against inventor now im calm im still thinking they just need to catch up andthere may be hope

pro e is very good in fact having used it since version 18 i would whole heartedly say its good for engineers ,engineers are not nescesarily the same as cad guys and enginners tend to get the best out of it ,its an incredible misnomer in that they try to market it as an easy to use tool but once you have mastered it there are few limits to what you can achieve in terms of engineering a product and providing those tools in one hit (albeit an expensive hit)

i have always used pro and think its an excellent tool in fact its the only software i would give up my own hard earned cash for use at home if i had to!!! unfortunately high previous pricing and bad reputation creates a fear factor associated with it

catia and ug, as a contractor ive used both in anger usually cars and planes catia is the grown up version of solidworks and ug is the development of ideas both mind blowing in what you can do with them and theres not much you cant do on a systems or enginnering perspective

pro e i would liketo lump in with catia and ug but i cant due to its unique and sometimes baffling approach to new users

however the majority of companies dont do planes and dont do cars and proE just some times does too much that companies dont want to or have a use for it to do

therefore the midrange cad packages are more suitable and here to stay and for that selection based on results is what needs to be considered

 

[G1DESIGN]

Rich942 IVE USED INVENTOR IVE USED SW

what i think may be the problem as a SW user is that SW is easier to use

or is it that im so used to solidworks i expect inventor to work the same

maybe if inventor users spent time on solidworks they may think its easier/harder to get on with

I started on pro e harder to use than either ? no

more capable without a doubt

ill tell you what as i used to do some solidworks demos for VARs

heres how it works

1.the salesguy says to demo guy just do some examples of the product company x makes into a whizz bang flawless knock your pants of our software does everyting sales pitch
2.salesguy yep sell the software avoiding any but what if questions
3.company x goes wow thats great your software does everything we want it to because you said it does(and you hadaproduct that looks just like we make its obvious other people in our industry areusing it and its not a researched pre prepared presentation.

Now here i am with an autodesk sales guy and his whizzo demo guy selling me the features of his new IV11 sat the other side of a table trying to get us up from 6 to 30 seats, not really a good move considering for the past two months ive picked and prodded the flaws home to their own tech support guys.

The other side of the table have the operations director to my left whos had me demo the SW pro E and IV11 and the way it fits into our company andwhichpipeline is best to achieve our goals

the outcome of said meeting was kind of a middle east affair in that it descended to all out your wrong on all fronts and that never came from me but the rather embarrased sales rep
trying to be honourably defensive
not a good thing making an enemy of the potential purchaser

unfairly i was able to pick up on flaws that maybe wthout experience and certainly a lot of bias most folks new to picking a 3d package wouldnt have

Honest john doesnt exist especially in software sales so my advice is try them all and see which produces best for your company

 

[ajack1]

Very good advice G1design a star for you.

I would also mention that if you work in a niche market it is worth looking outside the big players, one of the reasons they are so big is they appeal to the masses because they are so general, that does not mean they are the best at specific tasks.

Also what do customers and suppliers use, do you need to keep models smart?

It is much easier to make an informed judgement if you have experience in 3D, whilst we all probably believe “my bed is the most comfortable” you do know what causes problems, to the best of my knowledge no sales guy has ever said our system is rubbish at that. If you just see a demo and have no 3D experience ALL the systems with their wizzo presentations look great and the chances are you do not even know the questions to ask let alone what to make of the answers.

Still G1design you do seem to be going away from this thread, can we please go back to the childish bickering, it is much more amusing.

 

[J-C]

Autodesk is defintely outsourcing:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/05/11/10/HNhclautodesk_1.html

http://www.awprofessional.com/articles/article.asp?p=173977&seqNum=3&rl=1

http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatch/archives/004011.html

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[cookieman]

are you serious ? do you really not understand the difference between outsourcing and offshore facilities ? have someone explain it to you.

 

[J-C]

Mostly this is respone to Rich who says they use Autodesk software cause its all developed in the USA. Software developed outside the USA is a security issue sccording to him.

YOu're right though, I should have stated it as offshore programmers rather than outsourcing.

Of course this statement firmly plants their company policy, which is probably true fir many companies now:

Autodesk CEO Carol Bartz stated that the salaries of Indian employees are about 15% or 20% of U.S. salaries, with China being even a little less. She added, "When you can get great talent at 20% of the costs, it isn't about waving the American flag. It's about doing what's right to have a good company."


Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[cookieman]

autodesk's MCAD division where Inventor is developed is located in Oregon:

http://mcadonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=304&Itemid=73

why is this so difficult to understand?

 

[rich942]

Software developed outside the USA is a security issue sccording to him.

The security issue is very real, as this article makes clear. This is not "according to me", its not a personal concern, but a professional one.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/nov2006/tc20061102_797312.htm

 

[J-C]

The bulk if IVs programming is probably done there, much like the bulk of Solidworks is done in Massachusetts. Side projects tend to get done using offshore programmers.

Sometimes in the case of acquisitions, (Like PDMWorks Enterprise), the programmers are in another country, in this case Scandinavia.

Jason

UG NX2.02.2 on Win2000 SP3
SolidWorks 2006 SP5.0 on WinXP SP2

 

[cookieman]

the fact remains that the source code for SW was stolen from GSS in India. that's where the programming is being done for purely economic reasons and no regard for security.

time to stop beating a dead horse...