IRC / IBC Structural Glazing Question 2

[Heaviside1925]

Backstory first. I have a friend (software engineering) who is designing a house for himself. He's a bright fellow and the IRC for the most part provides fairly navigable prescriptive techniques and design instruction as long as one stays within its purviews. He comes to me for code advice since I have a good working knowledge of the IRC and IBC in relation to my background (MEP). He had an idea to use surplus structural glazing for an exterior glass wall. Like most codes, there is heavy reliance on manufacture's recommendation for design and installation and the glazing in question are engineered panels, so deflection, weight and design characteristics are available from the manufacture. Since these are surplus, what I do not have visibility of, is the actual design of how these panels were indented to be installed. Just a clarification, these are surplus not reused, so they are still new, in the original packaging and have never been installed. I have reviewed the manufactures' installation recommendations, and they push that part over to either the installation system or standards surrounding best practices for installing glazing. When I look at the best practices for installing the glazing, there are some guidelines but push things back to either the glazing manufacture or the applicable code. I have run into these back-and-forth's many times in my career and that's where the experience of knowing the intent of parties involved, i.e. manufacture, code and best practices comes into play. For this situation I am ignorant in experience. So, where I am at is, I have found well established prescriptive techniques for setting, sealing and adhering glazing panels The only code guidance I have found concerning installation uses the phasing "firmly affixed / attached". The dead, live, wind, seismic loads, deflection limits have been evaluated (not by me). The glass meets code safety requirements.
My three questions are:
Is there anything in the IBC prohibiting the use of these panels in this application?
Am I missing additional code requirements concerning prescribed installation of the panels, outside of being firmly affixed?
Is there an actual definition of what it means for the glazing edges needing to be physically / mechanically protected aside from the literal reading?
Thank you.

 

[SWComposites]

Seems like you should be talking to an experienced local glazing installation contractor.

 

[jjl317]

And I would add, an engineer familiar with glazing and cladding design.

Based on your questions, it appears that you are looking for the codes to address all of the items that would be required for a successful design. Designing in glass has many unique challenges (including air/water infiltration and thermal performance) and I don't believe that the codes provide specific enough information to ensure that would happen. And your comment "The dead, live, wind, seismic loads, deflection limits have been evaluated (not by me)" is somewhat concerning, as the loading would be site specific, so it is unclear how it could be true.

Glass in construction is generally supported with specific custom shapes (often aluminum). Are these "engineered panels" just glass, or glass attached to framing members?

If they are already attached to framing members, I would recommend contacting the manufacturer of the system, as they may have engineers that are familiar with the systems, who could potentially provide engineering support for a cost.

If they are just the glass panels themselves, there would be a number of options for framing systems that could be used in conjunction with the panels to support the panels.

At the end of the day, I would be VERY hesitant to guestimate this kind of design, if nothing else for concerns about leaks, as making these systems air and water-tight is not always easy, and the potential issues (including mold), can be VERY problematic.

 

[Heaviside1925]

Thank you jj317. You gave me the confirmation I was needing. His specific question was if there were any governing code issues surrounding the installation. To answer your question, these are engineered panels with an internal frame but based on the manufactures' information, these panels could be wet or dry glazed or use a mechanical fastening system.

And your comment "The dead, live, wind, seismic loads, deflection limits have been evaluated (not by me)" is somewhat concerning, as the loading would be site specific, so it is unclear how it could be true I apologize if this added confusion. Ironically, I was just including this statement to add clarity. It was to communicate to anyone reading my post that I was not trying to act as the EOR for his design nor providing him anything other than a specific opinion to his question. I was 90% sure of the answer but I wanted additional confirmation, which is why I posted the question here. I should have stated that directly and said I am only providing an opinion as to whether or not additional code guidance needed to be considered in refence to the installation of the panel.
I may have gotten a little windy in my description of all the research I had done prior to posting but I just wanted to provide some context that I was not just asking the question off handed. I have run into situations before where it is not spelled out directly in a specific code (not referring to the IBC specifically), but it leads you to an ASTM standard let's say. Then that standard leads to you manufactures specific document that then points to another code that in turn points you to a different section of the original code that you started in. Once you know that relationship of one code to another, it's not an issue anymore. Since I am not and SE or architect, I wanted to ask the folks who work in this realm to confirm I wasn't missing something. Thank you again for your response.

Manufactures' sticker for reference below.

 

[jjl317]

My first statement was that I thought you needed an engineer familiar with cladding and glazing design, who could then advise on any relevant code related issues.

Based on your responses, I am not sure we are on the same page at all. I don't know anything about the MEP provisions in the IRC / IBC, but for the structural, my interpretation is basically that either you are following the prescriptive guidance in these codes (which would not necessarily require an engineer to review) or you need an engineer to verify the assembly/design.

For example, who is going to verify that the "internal frame" is adequate structurally to resist the imposed loads? Or that the glass itself is adequate?

Based on the sticker, I presume that these are unitized curtainwall (or window-wall) assemblies provided by Pioneer Cladding. While it is completely unclear how you friend ended up with these units, I would think that contacting Pioneer about them might be appropriate. I would expect that they had hired an outside engineer to design them originally, and this engineer should be able to help you in confirming whether they would be appropriate for this alternate use.

 

[Heaviside1925]

jj317,
I think we are on the same page and a I agree with all of your points. Thank you again for your response.

 

[RenHen]

what do you mean by "internal frame"?