Is grad school a wise choice? 2

[jun41]

Hello all,

I just graduated from the University of California Irvine with a B.S. in Civil specializing in structural engineering. I've been looking for jobs and have been making progress but it seems like most of my prospects didn't get too far. Frustrating, to say the least.

I've been accepted into and am considering getting an M.S. in Structural Engineering at Cal State Fullerton. This school is not regarded very highly however I'm not sure of my chances of getting into a school of a higher caliber. My gpa from undergrad is 2.7 and almost all grad schools require a 3.0 and above. I'm thinking that obtaining a masters degree (and a much higher gpa) will improve my job prospects significantly.

Is going to this school and working on improving my gpa a good option for me right now? My game plan and overall goal is to get a job doing interesting structural work and make a good living for myself.

Thanks for all responses.

 

[ctopher]

IMO, getting a better (or additional) education is always a good option.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[cvg]

agree, UCI is at least two or three steps above Fullerton. How about Cal-Poly in Pomona, could you get accepted there?

 

[moon161]

My impression is that lots of SE's are out of work. If your in a good position for grad school, the job market will probably look better when you're done

A: You'll have an MS
B: They might be building things again in 2 years.

 

[zdas04]

There have probably been a dozen threads on this subject over the last few years. My advice is always that an MS without relevant experience makes you LESS employable than not having the MS. The reason is that you are still an entry level person, not able to do much worthwhile, but you expect a higher salary and you are part of a community (MS) that has higher mobility than the engineering population as a whole.

If I have two resumes for an entry level position and the BS has strong credentials I'll pick him over an MS with similar credentials every time. An MS PLUS RELEVANT EXPERIENCE is an asset. An MS without that experience is a liability.

David

 

[crossframe]

I'd say go for the MS now, before life gets in the way. A MS after you have some experience would be desirable, because you'll have a better idea of what facet of engineering you'll want to pursue, but it's much harder when you have a job, family, etc. There are lots of people here that have done just that, but I think they'd agree it would've been easier (but not necessarily better) to have done it immediately after the BS degree.

Another consideration is that P.E. licensing requirements are going insist on a MS (or equivalent) by the time you are eligible for the exam. As a civil engineer in California, you will want to be licensed.

 

[TheTick]

I'm beginnning to think that grad school is only appropriate for people capable of making their own decisions. Or maybe it's the opposite. I don't know. Help me with this one.

 

[debodine]

TheTick:

Today you are TheTickle because your humor tickled my funny bone! STAR!

 

[B16A2]

What makes you believe that you'll do better in grad school if you were only able to pull off a 2.7 during undergrad? Just an honest question you should be asking yourself. Undergrad is a cakewalk compared to grad school.

Maybe design isn't your calling. Maybe getting a JD would be a better and more lucrative option?

 

[abusementpark]

Undergrad is a cakewalk compared to grad school.

Yes and no.

The coursework is more advanced, but the professors aren't in "weed-out" mode any more and they are a lot more accommodating and easy going. You can also focus more on each class. 9-12 hours is considered full-time in grad school, compared to the 15-18 hours in undergrad. So, if he is going to school full-time, he will have a lot more time to devote to each class. Also, my school let us take a certain number of undergrad classes for credit.

 

[frv]

abusement..

I totally agree with you. The material is certainly more complicated, but the professors aren't looking to make you fail.

 

[FeX32]

Go for it. It may give you more than just a piece of paper.
How little or how much you can learn in grad school is up to you. It may only give you perspective and credentials.
But this is better than nothing.

Go with your gut...the Tick has a good fickel


Fe

 

[trchambe]

jun41,

This is just slightly off the topic of your main question. But if you're concerned about getting into a better school, there may be a way. Often times, a school will allow you to take a course or two as a non-degree student to prove yourself. If you do well, they will sometimes admit you. May be a bit extra money, and it may or may not be worth it to you... just something to think about.

 

[IRstuff]

A 2.7 GPA is not the result of just "weeder" classes, which are typically all in the freshman year. By the time you declare a major, the weeder classes should already be behind you.

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[RDK]

A master’s degree will give you effectively twice the time in equivalent experience. So a 2 year Master’s program will put you on an equal footing with a 4 year experienced person.

It will also take two years to get and by that time there is a good chance that the economy will turn around and there will be jobs opening up again. It will also show that you think and plan ahead. You will be ahead in the job competition over your classmates who were flipping burgers for the last two years.

There was a serious recession in the early 80’s where almost none of the graduates for a three year period got engineering jobs. When the hiring started again there were some who were in comfortable jobs in testing labs as technicians and they did not start to hunt for engineering jobs until well after the hiring was under way.

Anytime I received an application from one of these guys it immediately went in the circular files because if someone could not get off their fat a$$ and help themselves I considered them totally lacking in any initiative and drive and not someone I wanted around.

The people who went direct into a master’s program on the other hand got high consideration.

Why not look elsewhere? I have been working in Afghanistan for the last few years and every company I know of over there is interested in hiring people because there simply is a serious lack of qualified people willing to earn twice what they make now.


Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[HPRifleman]

RDK wrote:
"A master's degree will give you effectively twice the time in equivalent experience. So a 2 year Master's program will put you on an equal footing with a 4 year experienced person."

I don't agree with that advice. A Master's degree and no experience does not equal a Bachelor's and 4 years exp. While the advanced degree shows greater knowledge in a particular field, it is not the equivalent of work experience.

Also, there are plenty of reasons why someone would not pursue a Master's degree during an economic downturn. Attributing it to not getting "off their fat a$$" seems biased and short-sighted.

 

[sbullet86]

If I have two resumes for an entry level position and the BS has strong credentials I'll pick him over an MS with similar credentials every time.

Why not pick up the guy with the MS but pay him the salary of roughly a BS?

A Master's degree and no experience does not equal a Bachelor's and 4 years exp. While the advanced degree shows greater knowledge in a particular field, it is not the equivalent of work experience.

I understand what you mean, but some defense contractors equate a Masters to two years of work exp automatically.

 

[B16A2]

If OP wants to go into structural design, he has a far better chance of doing this with a decent GPA and MS degree than with a 2.7GPA BS.

Structural engineers should be required to have a MS anyway. The four structural classes you take during a BS degree are not enough to designate you to the profession.

 

[IRstuff]

"some defense contractors equate a Masters to two years of work exp automatically"

Some, but not all; we don't. The only reason for specifically hiring an MS is if there is a specific area of expertise that the average engineer is unlikely to have. Otherwise, we don't really treat them any differently. In fact, we often stay away from MS degreed candidates because it often means that the candidate is research oriented, and that often leads to over analysis, and paralysis...

TTFN

FAQ731-376
Chinese prisoner wins Nobel Peace Prize

 

[TheTick]

Anytime I received an application from one of these guys it immediately went in the circular files because if someone could not get off their fat a$$ and help themselves I considered them totally lacking in any initiative and drive and not someone I wanted around.

Need to find the button to award a little brown star for the most backward thing I've seen written in ages. You'd probably think differently if one of these graduates was stuck living on your couch. Seems most people go to graduate school for the same reason as these other said folks who did not: there were no available opportunities and no one had a clue where to go after graduation.

Seems the ones who didn't go to grad school were the ones not accumulating more debt and investing in a career that was already going nowhere. Why accumulate an additional crushing debt burden just to get stuck working yet another dead end job?